Koch Pedaltone - Slight Return

[Josh O]

After doing some experimenting at band practice last night and borrowing some of the precious original 12AX7s from my Fender Brown Princeton, I've settled on the following setup:

V1 - '62 GE 7025/12AX7 from my Fender
V2 - stock Sovtek
V3 - stock Koch
V4 - EH 12AX7

I A/B/C'd the stock Koch tube, the GE and an Amperex ECC83/12AX7 in the V1 position ( it's in the V2 position of my Fender) and the GE was the best of both worlds. It offered great cleans that the stock Koch tube did but it sounded a bit fuller and warmer and also offered a little grit when I really ground out a chord in the bridge position, something the Amperex did too much of (really lost that great clean) and the stock tube didn't do enough. Knowing that the Amperex had some more grit to it than the stock Koch tube did in V1, I tried the Amperex in V3. It cut some gain back actually and it introduced more hum when I had Channel 2 with boost selected. So, stock Koch and Sovtek combo can stay, I like the Channel 2 sounds I'm getting now.

The biggest delight/surprise was the power amp setting. I had a great dirty tube tone dialed in witih Channel 1 for one of our songs that I always used Channel 2 with boost for. Holy moly, it sounded phenomenal, I used my neck pickup in my TCM with the the tone rolled back a little and creamy OD heaven. I also for the first time introduced in the boost/gain switch on my Tonebone Switchbone with this. I never use the boost on it but boy am I glad I did, it just pushed that creamy OD into interstellar overdrive!!

Consider me one very happy camper. Plus, now it gives me an excuse to buy some tubes from Mike at KCA to repelenish what I stole from my Fender!!!!

 

[Shaman]

Sweet! But man, I think you is bitten by the tube bug. And the Pedaltone makes it so easy to swap tubes in and out that it just feeds my tube rolling neurosis. But it's cool to find a great sound you like and stick with it, too.

I had a similar experience with the Amperex and the GE as you describe. I like a lot of GEs, they do have this superb grind to them that none of the others seem to cop in the same way (even the Mullards).

The Power Amp -- ain't it the coolest? I have yet to try it with an amp full out, but can only imagine it's gotta sound great, because even at low levels or via direct it's got some great mojo going on.

Sounds like you also found the magic of using a boost in front(?) of the PT. I use my Time Machine Boost in front of the Koch and together they really are heaven.

If you ever try out the GT Mullard replicas let us know what you think.

Cheers!

 

[Josh O]

It's definetely fun and addictive! Yeah, the boost from my Switchbone is in front of the PT. What a great enhancement. Glad to hear that I wasn't the only one who thought the GE was better than the Amperex in the V1 position, great tube. I actually now have a GT Mullard reissue in my possession and look forward to trying it in the power amp slot just to see how different it sounds vice the EH I have in there now and also in the V2 position.

 

[Shaman]

I'll be curious to hear how the GT works for you. BTW, are you using the PT primarily with your Fender?

 

[Bill D]

All this talk about swapping tubes inspired me to try some new tube combinations in my Pedaltone. I was running with GT Mullards in all 4 positions. Pretty smooth top end, nice mids. Tried several combinations of other tubes, ended up with Mullard 12au7 in V1, GE 5751 on V2 and V3, and JJ Tesla 12ax7 (recent stock) in the power amp. The lower gain tubes in V1,V2,V3 smooth out the distortion a bit, the power amp is dialed in for more of a subtle drive, JJ works well there. Am able to run each channel at higher volume level and roll the volume on the guitar to clean up some of the dirt. I find myself drifting towards more subtle forms of overdive and dirt these days ... this tube combo is working pretty well for me ... at least for a while, eh ?

 

[teddys]

I have a new in box Pedaltone.
I have no clue how to use it?

bought it real cheap, so whats the next step?

 

[Bill D]

Manual (brief but informative) is available at the Koch website:

http://www.koch-amps.com/manuals/

Here is a direct link to the PDF file:

http://www.koch-amps.com/docs/manuals/Pedaltone-manual.pdf

After that, power it up, plug in, enjoy ...

 

[ericb]

Originally posted by Bill D
Manual (brief but informative) is available at the Koch website:

http://www.koch-amps.com/manuals/

Here is a direct link to the PDF file:

http://www.koch-amps.com/docs/manuals/Pedaltone-manual.pdf

After that, power it up, plug in, enjoy ...

I tried explaining all of that to Teddy about a year ago! I'm not sure what the problem is

ERIC

 

[teddys]

Eric,
I purge my memory every 10 months

I know I saved the info, I just have to break it out and tweek it for a while.

 

[teddys]

Thanks for your help and pardon my ignorance

What type of amps are you using this in front of.

My original impression is that it was designed as a preamp for direct out.

 

[Josh O]

I actually use the PT for direct record only. Alot of times when the band gets together, we go direct in to either a digital recorder or mixer into computer and monitor on headphones so that we don't make a racket in the house we play in. I grew tired of the digital modelers/processors and went straight to the PT, all tube, great tones from clean to distorted, reacts like an amp without having an amp. I love this thing and can't believe I thought about getting rid of it not too long ago. Now that I've caught the bug messing around with tubes, it's an endless toy!!

 

[Shaman]

One of you gents mentioned pulling the tubes out one by one to see which position related to which pedal function. I toyed around to see for myself and lo and behold it worked!

But what I also discovered was pretty fascinating. My ears had always told me that the last tube affected the overall output sound quality regardless of whether Power Amp was engaged or not. When I took the Power Amp tube (V4) out the OD channel sounds changed significantly (clearer, more open). Put the tube back in (no Power Amp engaged) and the sound changed back (more mid-range, flatter sound). Pulled the clean channel tube out (V1) and tried the OD w/OD Boost engaged (first two switches engaged) -- wow. . .it also sounded different. Put the clean channel tube back in and yup, even though I was raging through the OD + OD Boost channel (not the clean channel, CH 1)the sound was different with the V1 tube in then with it out.

While I know nothing about tube circuitry it appears that at the very least regardless of which channel you have engaged the signal "sort of" passes through the V1 and V4 tube positions when tubes are in (obviously it somehow bypasses them when tubes are not in since it still works). Thus, I found that all FOUR tube positions affect my OD and OD + OD Boost sounds! Once I realized this I was able to hone in on tuning up my OD channel sounds not just by swapping out the two OD tubes, but by finding the right combo with all four tubes.

For me, it was a huge revelation, and thanks to the fine gent that mentioned pulling the tubes out (Eric or Josh I believe). Interestingly, I found myself back to my old two favorite all time 12ax7s: The Raytheon black plates in V1, V3, and V4, and a Mullard ECC83 long plate D-getter in V2. The Mullard's got that great disto/OD 3-D mojo, while the clear depth and extension (without mid muds) of the Raytheons is just superb.

So I'm done. . . for now ;-).

 

[teddys]

OK, OK so I broke out the pedaltone tonight and put it in front of a 68 Dual Showman Reverb combo into a 15" weber Cali.
The guitar was a Suhr Str*t with LP's.

I was pretty amazed about the glassyness it added to already lush sound of the amp. It kind of remided me of my Matchless HotBox with not too much gain.
I am not a tweeker but spent about 2 hours with it,
There isn't a bad sound in this box!!!
I went thru the different channels and fiddled about with many settings. All were very, very good. I can see why players are 0
relying on this box as a swiss arny knife!

I would appreciate if any other users can forward some sample settings to me by PM if possible.

So now its a keeper.

 

[tjs]

Pulled the clean channel tube out (V1) and tried the OD w/OD Boost engaged (first two switches engaged) -- wow. . .it also sounded different.

What effect did pulling V1 have on the OD channel? Was it similar to that of pulling V4 (clearer, more open), or did it have a different effect altogether?

 

[Shaman]

What effect did pulling V1 have on the OD channel? Was it similar to that of pulling V4 (clearer, more open), or did it have a different effect altogether?

As I recall, yes, clearer more open. It was a long time ago. Maybe I'll try it again this weekend and report back if anything different.

 

[tjs]

As I recall, yes, clearer more open. It was a long time ago. Maybe I'll try it again this weekend and report back if anything different.

If it's not too much trouble, would you mind making a quick clip of the clean and OD channels with the power tube pulled?

I'm sort of on the edge right now in terms of whether or not I want to get a Pedaltone. From the clips I've heard it's almost the sound I'm looking for, but it's not quite there and I can't tell whether or not I'll be able to get it there. I think pulling the power tube might do the trick (and it would still let me use both channels as opposed to pulling the clean channel tube), but I'd like to be as certain as possible before plopping down almost $900 for the thing.

Thanks.