KR Musical Products Shipping to Europe

Discussion in 'Effects, Pedals, Strings & Things' started by roblovesolives, May 29, 2008.

  1. roblovesolives

    roblovesolives Member

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    Anyone know why we can't get KR pedals over here. Would give me starboard testicle for The Fuzz and Megavibe, not to mention the Wah. He says there are laws precluding him from shipping but Analog Man and Bob Sweet don't seem to have the same problem. Just wondering if anyone knew the ins and outs. Cheers.:confused:
     
  2. kakev

    kakev Member

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    Plain and simple, KR products aren't RoHS compliant.
     
  3. jero

    jero Member

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    One thing I can imagine is that KR products don't have CE certification.
     
  4. StompBoxBlues

    StompBoxBlues Member

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    I'm not sure it is that they aren't compliant, but that there is no cohesive way to certify that it IS compliant. Unless you know that it is not compliant?

    I tried to convince Kevin also to send here to Norway...he wouldn't even do that. I tried pointing out that Norway wasn't in the EU, but he wouldn't do it. From what I hear there are huge problems contacting or ordering right now anyway, I gave up. I also wanted a fuzz and megavibe badly, for years...

    For those that don't know what this is, you can google ROHS and find info but basically it is a EU directive that doesn't allow leaded solder among other things...environmentally sound items only. But the problem is, it doesn't take into account items that ALREADY exist, like vintage amps, etc.

    I know Kevin was worried about getting "dinged" for it. That 99 out of 100 times it probably wouldn't be noticed, but that one time he could get a fine, or something.
     
  5. stinkfoot

    stinkfoot Member

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    The RoHS directive went into effect in july 2006, and basically states that all new electronic equipment (according to http://www.rohs.gov.uk/ it may not affect used gear) being put into the EU market can not contain more than a certain amount of various hazardous metals and chemicals. This is applied to individual components as well as the finished product, so if a builder uses an op-amp that isn't RoHS certified, the product will most likely not be certified either.

    This is the most likely reason reissue TS-9's these days come with the JRC4558D op-amp - the TA75558P they used earlier isn't RoHS certified, while the JRC is.

    Then there's the CE thing - products to be sold in the EU need to be declared as meeting the requirements of any EU directives applicable to that product.

    Getting a product cleared for both the RoHS directive and receiving CE marking costs money, which isn't such a big deal for a large company. They have the resources to front the cost (before passing it on to the consumer, of course :D). Smaller outfits - like boutique-ish pedal makers, for instance - can have a much harder time with this. So wether it is an RoHS or CE issue, chances are that it isn't economically viable for KR to do it. It all depends on how big your sales figures in Europe are, I suppose.

    Edit/added: Like StombBoxBlues daid, it doesn't even have to be that the KR pedals aren't RoHS compliant - a product may be fully compliant, but you still won't be able to sell to Europe unless you're willing to fork up the cash to pay for the process needed to get certified... It's the same deal when exporting stuff into the US - there are (other) certifications needed that cost money to get. IIRC, Behringer got zapped in the US recently for selling digital equimpent that hadn't been properly certified by the US authorities.

    /Andreas
     
  6. Alter

    Alter Member

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    if you really want the pedals though, just have them shipped to a friend in the states. if this is not possible, there are services on the internet that provide a mail address in the states and forward the goods to the rest of the world
     
  7. blueprint

    blueprint Member

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    Just buy them used.

    I bought a megavibe in the emporium here, and havent got any problem with customs or whatever.
     
  8. ROTHNROLL

    ROTHNROLL Member

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    where are you located in Europe?
     
  9. kakev

    kakev Member

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    It's been awhile since I had this discussion with KR but if remember correctly this was the case. It's also possible that my mind is playing tricks on me..
     
  10. shakti

    shakti Member

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    Contact Rackdoctor here, and he may be able to hook you up. I'm also in Norway.

    I just got my small Megavibe and am really digging it!! It has the sweetest, richest swirl of any vibe clone I've tried, and a very addictive clarity. You can hear it most distinctly in vibrato mode, where it changes the pitch more profoundly than a CC2 Provibe I compared it directly with. The Provibe in vibrato mode was almost like a cross between vibrato and tremolo, whereas the Mega was almost seasick-like at full intensity. I'm sure that translates to something in chorus mode - the change from one end of the cycle to the other is much more gradual on the Mega, where the Provibe goes very abruptly from one end to the other (adjusting the center did not change this, it just changes where and how much lopsided the sweep is).
    The Mega does have more of a phaser quality, IMHO, where the Provibe was a little more warbly (again, with a hint of tremolo in there). Running a fuzz into the Mega was very colourful, almost too much so, in the sense that it becomes very swishy. I definitely prefer the Mega in front of fuzzes, where the Provibe was a little too subtle in front, but worked well after a fuzz.

    Well, this was probably semi-off-topic...point is, send RACKDOCTOR a PM and see if he can help you.
     
  11. GDking

    GDking Member

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    Don't sweat it brother people can't get them in America either.
     
  12. qatcat

    qatcat Member

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    I think I sold you mine! I'm getting another Megavibe. I have an Ultra which I absolutely love but the mega was different and I really dug that as much. So now I need another.

    should have never sold the mega, I'll just keep both now!
     
  13. Freedom

    Freedom Member

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    +1

    +1

    I've got 4 KR pedals...i bought 3 from TGPers and i told a friend of mine who lives in the US to order the 4th for me...:BEER
     
  14. amp_surgeon

    amp_surgeon Member

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    Kevin says in his FAQ's that he won't ship to Europe because of the electronics regulations, which I presume means RoHS. If it's not possible to make the pedals RoHS compliant, then CE certification is a moot point.

    There's no way to make a vibe clone the way he (or most pedal makers) build them in an RoHS compliant manner, even if brand new parts are used. The light tank in a vibe clone uses four light dependent resistors that are made with cadmium - one of the metals which are banned under RoHS.

    By the way, the European Commission's RoHS regulations don't require a small manufacturer to pay truckloads of cash to have their products certified as compliant. It only requires a manufacturer to do everything reasonable within their capabilities to ensure that they are compliant. For a big company, this means meticulous lab testing. For a small company, it's sufficient if each component they use is certified as compliant by the company that makes the components. They call it "due diligence".

    CE certification is another story. Lab testing is mandatory.
     
  15. stinkfoot

    stinkfoot Member

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    Good explanation! I figured the RoHS thing isn't expensive in itself - you just have to find components that are compliant (if they are available, of course) - but getting a CE certification is quite expensive. I had a quick look at the swedish electronics suppliers' sites, and there are RoHS compliant photoresistors out there, but they may not be suitable to that particular circuit. And even if they were, you'd still need to go through the CE certification process... argh :bkw

    I guess buying used is an option... :D

    /Andreas
     
  16. amp_surgeon

    amp_surgeon Member

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    Those wouldn't be photocells made by Macron, would they?

    The way it works is that the RoHS regulations say you can't have more than 0.01% cadmium in any homogenous material used to make a product. A "homogenous material" is defined as a material that cannot be separated from other materials using any mechanical method. Most electronic components consist of a number of different homogenous materials. For example, a resistor contains a resistive element (one material) surrounded by a coating (another material), with wire leads (another material) which may be plated with tin (another material), and color stripes (each color is another material).

    Apparently, Macron claimed their CdS cells were compliant because they claimed the ceramic substrate with the cadmium plating was one material only, rather than two - the ceramic and the cadmium. ERA Technology in the UK analyzed the Macron CdS cells and found that they were not compliant.

    I'd LOVE to find a source for RoHS compliant CdS cells. If you've got a link it would be greatly appreciated. :AOK
     
  17. steinwand

    steinwand Member

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    had the same problem with a Greer amp the Studio10.
    At Patdaddy they told me they can't ship to Germany
    because of RoHS :jo

    Now I'm trying the trick with a friend of mine
    who lives in the states ... absolutely nonsense IMHO,
    especially if you think that I have bought things of the
    emporium and there never has been a problem.
     
  18. gilmutt

    gilmutt Member

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    If the issue is ce marking, or more correctly compliance with the 100a directives, then I would image it relates to illustrating compliance with the EMC regulations and the General Product Safety Regulations.

    The emc regulations sound really awful, read really awful but aren't that difficult to comply with........other than the obvious expense of getting a sample of each 'model' tested, approximately £800 here in the UK, maintaining a technicial file (generally circuit diagram, parts list and specifications for each) and then being able to show due diligence in constructing all future pedals to that particular model.

    Remember that these directives are fundamentally about free movement of goods in the EU and compliance would enable the goods to be supplied to all ... ahem...member states.

    I am sorry I cannot comment on the environmental regs people have mentioned - I am afraid they are bit outside my sphere but if anyone wants further information on EMC or GPSR just pm and I can supply some detailed guidance as I have to deal with them at work.
     
  19. amp_surgeon

    amp_surgeon Member

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    EMC testing costs a bit more here in the States, probably because all of the notified bodies are in Europe (by EC mandate), and the labs here are essentially sub-contractors to them. My last pedal test cost more than $5000 US. That's a seriously large chunk of cash for any relatively small pedal maker to come up with.

    There are probably some pedal makers who "fly under the radar", and don't bother with RoHS or CE marking. They build pedals for spare cash or maybe just because they love tinkering. For anyone who is serious about building a business, it isn't worth the risk to not follow the rules. The prospect of having your company forever banned from selling products in the EU or European Economic Area, or worse - facing possible criminal charges if they ever go to Europe - is too daunting. It would really SUCK to fly to Germany for Musikmesse and get busted at the airport when the plane lands. :(

    Maybe I could get you to look over my technical file and give a little constructive criticism. :D
     
  20. stinkfoot

    stinkfoot Member

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    Now you made me look closer... it turned out I'd spotted a couple of optocouplers with LDR outputs - not quite the same, no... I did find a couple of Silonex units at RS Components, but they didn't list the RoHS status. The Vactec LDR's also found at RS was listed as non-compliant, though, and a quick look around the site suggests they only indicate when components are not compliant, so that may mean the Silonex units are ok.

    www.rs-components.com - part # 596-141 and 651-507 are the ones I've found so far. Not much...

    /Andreas
     

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