Lack of Feedback - Wattage/Volume or Other Problem?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs' started by mikoo69, Apr 25, 2016.

  1. mikoo69

    mikoo69 Supporting Member

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    I use an original 1965 Deluxe Reverb with a strat (that has relatively low output vintage style pickups)...usually keep the amp on 6, and push it with a Klon Centaur cranked up pretty high. I'm having some issues getting feedback style sustain easily...I really have to keep my volume knob on 10 and get pretty close to the amp to get that kind of feedback sustain....

    Tried out a 40 watt (I think) Fender Hot Rod Deluxe and was getting feedback sustain much easier, even with my guitar volume knob down a bit...The amp was set cleaner than my deluxe (my deluxe on 6 is pretty crunchy), and the perceived volume I set it to was probably around the same as my deluxe reverb in the room.

    Not sure if my issue with the Deluxe has anything to do with it's lower power output, or if this is a sign that I need to bring it to a tech and possibly replace the tubes (it's been a long time since I've changed tubes, can't really remember to be honest).

    Thoughts?
     
  2. De Batz

    De Batz Member

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    How much did you try moving around the room? It can be as simple as 'two feet to the left' and what was missing is back, especially in rectangular rooms or really big spaces.
    There's also a question of frequencies: feedback-style sustain is very particular, sitting more in the midrange of the sound rather than the treble or bass. The DR is pretty midrange-light, and so is the strat. The HRD can put out more midrange even in the clean settings, so it might be worth thinking about that as well.

    Some nights I get instant howling feedback at rehearsal, and then the next week I get almost a dead response, and the only difference is the relative position of me and the amp.
     
  3. mikoo69

    mikoo69 Supporting Member

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    I have the DR modded with a midrange knob so I can experiment turning that up a bit. The Klon definitelly makes up for the strats natural lack of mids.

    Good point about the room...totally different studio I tried the hot rod deluxe in.

    Could this have anything to do with needing new power or preamp tubes?
     
  4. IM4Tone

    IM4Tone Member

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    Midrange boost, compressor/sustainer, position (as previously stated), and of course as you already know, volume. That's the recipe.
     
  5. RussB

    RussB low rent hobbyist Silver Supporting Member

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    Low output pickups aren't doing you any favors either.

    Perhaps you have a weak preamp tube or two?
     
  6. joshofsorts

    joshofsorts Member

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    Apparently Jimmy Hendrix used to walk around the stage before the show and mark the sections of the stage with tape where he could get the feedback he wanted. Learning those right places to stand helps, also a lot of gain. I got great feedback out of my last amp, but I also had it for 8 years, so I really knew how to get what I wanted with it. Manipulating feedback has always been part of my style as a guitar player. My new amp is a little trickier as I have had it less than a year, but I am learning.
     
  7. IM4Tone

    IM4Tone Member

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    And I believe Carlos Santana does the same.
     
  8. joshofsorts

    joshofsorts Member

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    Forgot to mention that an additional gain stage might help you as well, say a clean boost pedal after the Klon.
     
  9. Bruce Clement

    Bruce Clement Gold Supporting Member

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    There's nothing wrong with your amp. It's probably voice differently, that's all. You need gain volume and mids if you want feedback.
     
    Seth L likes this.
  10. mikoo69

    mikoo69 Supporting Member

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    Was thinking of running a Custom Audio Electronics line driver first in line to slightly boost the output of my strat so it's a bit hotter (rather than replace the pickups). Might this help?
     
  11. joshofsorts

    joshofsorts Member

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    That should help, but you might want to experiment with placement on both sides of your board (first & last). First will give you more gain going into the Klon, but last will give you more gain and volume.
     
  12. kimock

    kimock Member

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    Feedback between the guitar and amp is some balance of volume and proximity, there are a couple other factors, but basically if you get it loud enough, or jam the headstock into the cab, it'll lock.
     
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  13. Geetarpicker

    Geetarpicker Member

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    I have a bunch of Youtube video where I can't resist to throw in some controlled feedback. That said, it's typically with loud amps such as a Trainwreck Express (116db in the room) and quite resonant guitars w/potted pickups. That said, when I want to still have fun with controlled feedback at MUCH lower volume levels I use a Wampler Ego, or Keeley 2 knob compressor. Works wonders to induce that cab>guitar interaction at even living room volumes. As mentioned it's also all about the guitar body position/angle and proximity to the cab, but a compressor can make it SO much easier to do at quieter levels. Also with a compressor you don't really need to use a ton of distortion, heck even clean notes can nicely run away if you want them too.
     
  14. mikoo69

    mikoo69 Supporting Member

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    Though couldn't I just increase the output volume of the Klon last? I guess I was thinking of it first to simulate hotter pickups.

    I agree it probably has to do with rooms and position to my cab.

    Any suggestions to optimize placement in relation to my guitar? I can place the amp up on my roadcase if that helps (right now I keep it in the bottom of the roadcase and just take off the lid). Straight behind me, or at an angle?
     
  15. Phletch

    Phletch Member

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    You just have to experiment like everybody else - Play, hold some notes, walk around, turn at different angles to your speaker(s), and find out where the sweet spots are in that room. Like @kimock said, it's mostly a matter of volume and proximity. Although I have humbuckers, they are of the low-output PAF-type variety, but I can get feedback/sustain from my Mesa when it's just slightly clipping. Even though you have single-coils, with your amp on "6" and an OD pedal you should be able to make it happen.
     
    T92780 likes this.
  16. katuna

    katuna Silver Supporting Member

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    I purposely use a setup that seems to lend itself to feedback but, yeah, it's mostly about volume and finding the right place to put the guitar. However, I observed a very very weird thing the other day. I had my normal amp jacked way down with a Fryette power station (volume on the amp was high, but, again, we're talking not more than 5 actual watts or so actually coming out of the speakers). I used a Fulltone Plimsoul to goose the sound and lo and behold, I was getting very controllable feedback going (and I didn't have much gain going on the fulltone and it wasn't any kind of fuzzy tone, or anything like that). It was very odd, but sounded cool!
     
  17. joshofsorts

    joshofsorts Member

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    What I meant to say is if the Line Driver is fed into the Klon, it will not effect the volume much, just the gain as it will overdrive the Klon. The same will work in reverse if you switch the order, so whichever gain pedal comes last will effect the volume more when both are on (if that makes sense). You might try pushing the volume higher on your gain pedals (even if it is just the Klon alone) and compensate by turning down the volume on the amp a little. This will push your amp harder. Other thoughts for getting more gain at a lower volume would be to pull the V1 tube (this will make the Normal channel non-op, but will not hurt the amp and give you more gain in the Vibrato channel), also, if the tone stack in Deluxe Reverbs are the same as a Super Reverb, you can use the tone controls somewhat like a master volume. Turn the tone knobs all the way off, crank the volume, and then gradually dial in the tone to taste/volume.

    My experience with Blackface amps I usually had one low-gain OD or a boost pedal cascading into another before I got what I wanted, one pedal alone never seemed to quite do it at the volumes I play at, even with V1 pulled.

    Big Muff + Klon makes for some nice smooth controllable feedback with some practice.

    Having the amp up higher will make it a little easier to conjure feedback as you won't have to bend over as much.

    Often you need to get a little vibrato going on a note or chord with your fretting hand without playing the note. A hammer-on can help get things started as well. More musical if the feedback is in the key of the song anyway!
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2016
  18. IM4Tone

    IM4Tone Member

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    I had almost forgotten THIS pedal, with a one feature specifically designed for the OP's purpose. I have one and it does what it claims. I don't often use it since I'm able to obtain sufficient controlled feedback with my setups otherwise. Kingman demos it HERE.
     
  19. XSinner13X

    XSinner13X Member

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    [​IMG]
     
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  20. Echoplexi

    Echoplexi Silver Supporting Member

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    And Ted Nugent
     

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