Lame tube amps…

PorkChop

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
389
It's the power tube mojo that still has yet to be captured by anything I've played (though I've heard that the Kemper, when running through its ridiculous like 600 W power amp, has gotten there, I've never played one). A cranked Fender deluxe, or Marshall Plexi has such crazy dynamic range. Without even touching your guitar's volume knob, you can go from clean to blazing distorted tone just by altering your pick attack. It's extremely satisfying, and, while I've had many hours of fun with everything from super clean to super distorted through solid state amps, I've never personally played one with the kind of dynamic range the old NMV tube stuff I've played has.

I haven’t played all of the top end modelers or done any menu digging with any of them. The Iridium is the only one I’ve actually owned. I considered a Tone Master Deluxe Reverb at a point. I like simplicity and immediacy of those designs.

The tone debate isn’t an issue for my personal wants/needs. They sound really good, just like tube amps. I’ve never played one that can respond like the tube amps I’ve had and that’s the most important part of an amp to me overall. I don’t really care how close for better or worse the tone is if it’s not responding similarly.
 

davidespinosa

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
5,212
I don't know about "fully developed guitarists".

But I distinguish "might as well be acoustic" guitarists from real electric guitarists.
The electric players rely on overdrive / feedback / effects to get their sound.

So IMO, Robben Ford, Mark Knopfler, Albert Lee, and Brent Mason may as well be playing acoustic.
In fact, Robben did the Pop Pop album for Rickie Lee Jones on nylon string !

But Satriani, Vai, Johnson, and Morse wouldn't be themselves without the electric guitar.

I don't think you need a tube amp for "real electric guitar sound".
But rock and roll is played at volume.
Not sure it needs to be deafening volume, but silent recording with headphones isn't very rock and roll.
 
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proxy

Member
Messages
957
Still waiting for those Fairchild compressors to drop in price now that digital has “arrived”
 

El Rey

Double Platinum Member
Messages
2,317
When I see a tube amp for sale:


oPkJLmn.gif
 

MrTAteMyBalls

Member
Messages
4,694
Well, this is a response to the thread title.

When I was in high school I had a marshall JCM900 half stack. I was happy with it, but I wanted to add a fender tube amp for sparkly cleans.

So I found an amp in the paper for sale. Some kind of Fender from the 80's with a 1x15 speaker. I called the guy and he claimed it was one of those that Paul Rivera designed for Fender. I got it cheap....maybe 250 bucks.

I plugged it in at his place to make sure it worked. Seems fine.

I never got a decent tone out of it. Clean was dull and lifeless....worse than my JCM. And the "gain" channel was an absolute joke. It is the worst amp I have owned....tube or solid state. It is possible that it was broken and I didn't realize it. It sounded that bad.

Later when the internet came along with Harmony central forums and all that....I found out it was NOT the Rivera design. Oh well. It was definitely a lame tube amp and proved to me that just because it has tubes doesn't make it good.
 
Messages
327
I don't wanna shame anyone. Tube amps are an intrinsic part of the instrument, and unless you learn to play one to its fullest, you will never be a fully developed electric guitarist. If you take this opinion as shame or condescension, I am sorry. If it makes you angry or hostile, you have real mental issues. If you feel you do not have the ability or opportunity to do this, that is nonsense, this is a self imposed decision.

I like SS amps, they have their place. I do not like all this misinformation and bad advice thrown around. We have a lot of "collectors" here with no musical aspirations whatsoever. I don't wanna shame you, but sometimes you tell others their business. Tube amps are still very much used by those rich and poor who want the best guitar tone, and always will be. To say they are inaccessible is a joke, and they never have been in my Gen X lifetime.
I'm a straight up player. if it's not in the signal chain it's on Craigslist... I do not hoard or collect gear except to keep some bass rigs around for company... and i would rather lose a finger than play a digital amplifier. just saying. tube amps are real and modeling is something other
 
Messages
10,600
That’s not really a parallel comparison. Filming a movie using film is way more expensive than digital. It costs nothing extra to record with a tube amp vs digital.
Not recording, but touring with digital is usually far cheaper than real amps. See Metallica, Jimmy Eats World, Testament, and everyone else touring with a Kemper or Fractal at this point. Even Dream Theater tours Europe with just Fractals. JP uses his Mesa on US tours.
 

kmanick

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
916
the clubs I gig in are all basically booking either Tribute bands or classic rock cover bands (what I'm in)
I'd say 90% are still using tube amps, granted a lot of these bands have older members, so I guess the context is important.
I owned an Axe FX II for 10 years , loved it at home , hated it with the band, i felt completely disconnected from my guitar when
I used it in a "real" context" but I have seen a couple of bands with older members using modeling and having no issues with it.
I use the Captor X with my Splawn rig to go FOH whenever possible and use my 2X12 or 4X12 cabs for basically ...."me" on stage.
I wish I could get along with the Axe Fx, it would simplify what I would need to lug around.
Currently its
Head
Captor X
Cab
Fractal FX8MkII
having the axe Fx III and a pedal board being my entire rig would be a god send, it makes getting on/off stage and setting up/breaking down effortlesss
 

DeadLazy

Member
Messages
2,142
I'm a straight up player. if it's not in the signal chain it's on Craigslist... I do not hoard or collect gear except to keep some bass rigs around for company... and i would rather lose a finger than play a digital amplifier. just saying. tube amps are real and modeling is something other
Oh man, knock on wood. That’s one of the most foolish things I’ve ever heard.

Hyperbolic to prove a point or not…

Aside from the absolutely nonsensical idea that one is more real than the other.

It’s all embarrassing. Can you all not see that this comes from a deep sense of insecurity? It’s obvious.
 

DeadLazy

Member
Messages
2,142
Talk about having mixed up priorities. May we all remain healthy and fully fingered. No disrespect to the Django’s of the world, of course.

What’s unfortunate for many, is that there seems to be this either or mentality. When I started using digital, nobody raided my house and studio and confiscated my amps.

They’re not entirely equal but it’s a mixed back and nuanced, like a lot of things in life.

Stuff like ducking and morphing on the KPA add an entire new layer of dynamics to consider while you’re playing.

Ultimately, it’s a lot of fun. Don’t be stubborn and miss out. So is profiling: It’s fun. And by using digital, you’ll learn a lot about amps.
 
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neptoess

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
162
I haven’t played all of the top end modelers or done any menu digging with any of them. The Iridium is the only one I’ve actually owned. I considered a Tone Master Deluxe Reverb at a point. I like simplicity and immediacy of those designs.

The tone debate isn’t an issue for my personal wants/needs. They sound really good, just like tube amps. I’ve never played one that can respond like the tube amps I’ve had and that’s the most important part of an amp to me overall. I don’t really care how close for better or worse the tone is if it’s not responding similarly.
Those Tone Master amps are a great example of being able to match preamp tube response, but not power tube. I've yet to play one, but all the clean stuff I've heard recorded with them sounds phenomenal. Had to dig a little further to get to reviews of the amps cranked (how can you have a "Super Reverb" and not crank it and pretend to be Alex Lifeson?), and... they don't hold a candle to the tube versions. I guess my gut instinct that a 35 lb Super Reverb sounded too good to be true was right.
 

guitarman3001

Member
Messages
12,152
I'm a straight up player. if it's not in the signal chain it's on Craigslist... I do not hoard or collect gear except to keep some bass rigs around for company... and i would rather lose a finger than play a digital amplifier. just saying. tube amps are real and modeling is something other
Hmm...interesting philosophy. I personally believe in using the best tool for the job while also being enjoyable to play. I love my tube amps. But I haven't touched any of them in over a year. Fortunately, still haven't lost any fingers!
 

neptoess

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
162
Talk about having mixed up priorities. May we all remain healthy and fully fingered. No disrespect to the Django’s of the world, of course.

What’s unfortunate for many, is that there seems to be this either or mentality. When I started using digital, nobody raided my house and studio and confiscated my amps.

They’re not entirely equal but it’s a mixed back and nuanced, like a lot of things in life.

Stuff like ducking and morphing on the KPA add an entire new layer of dynamics to consider while you’re playing.

Ultimately, it’s a lot of fun. Don’t be stubborn and miss out. So is profiling: It’s fun. And by using digital, you’ll learn a lot about amps.
My biggest gripe with digital is that I'm a software engineer. I know it's effectively impossible for me to have this kind of income and working situation in the music industry. So I play guitar solely for my own enjoyment. Now, that said, the entire time I've played guitar, I've ripped my gear apart. Different pickups, wire different things to push/pull pots, mod pedals, re-cap tube amps, etc. Basically, I have this natural inclination to tinker, and... that takes away from my playing time! If I had something like a Kemper, I'd _never_ stop playing with profiles and settings, trying to match every tone I've ever liked. And I'd never really sit down and transcribe a song, or run through scales with the metronome, or ya know... actually get better at guitar.

As for rather losing a finger than play digital... I'd rather be forced to play nothing but my HM-2W through a set of a computer speakers for the rest of my life than lose any part of any bodily appendage.

Lastly, I don't really agree that you'll learn about amps by using digital. I don't think you even learn that much about amps by reading schematics (even if you have the EE background to understand what's actually happening in each component), or poking around inside amps, if you don't have the proper foundation. And the only way to get that, imo, is sitting with an amp, twisting the knobs (the ones on your amp AND your guitar!), and playing (don't forget to listen, these experiments help you pick up subtle nuances between similar sounds). Probably best to do this with simple, single channel circuits, with no pedals. If you start with a JVM410H, god help you. A Champ? You'll learn that one real quick. Once you think you've got that down, start adding stuff to the amp. You start figuring out why things like bright caps exist, why the classic overdrive circuits cut bass, etc. real quick
 
Messages
327
Oh man, knock on wood. That’s one of the most foolish things I’ve ever heard.

Hyperbolic to prove a point or not…

Aside from the absolutely nonsensical idea that one is more real than the other.

It’s all embarrassing. Can you all not see that this comes from a deep sense of insecurity? It’s obvious.
i would say it comes from personal taste and maybe a little respect for the traditional tools of the art form. sorry if i embarrassed you
 

neptoess

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
162
i would say it comes from personal taste and maybe a little respect for the traditional tools of the art form. sorry if i embarrassed you
I have to respect the doubling down, particularly with the user name "pedal enthusiast". So you clearly have no issue using solid state components in your signal path. Is it just DSPs you have an issue with? I hope that means you're vehemently opposed to Strymon then?
 

DeadLazy

Member
Messages
2,142
My biggest gripe with digital is that I'm a software engineer. I know it's effectively impossible for me to have this kind of income and working situation in the music industry. So I play guitar solely for my own enjoyment. Now, that said, the entire time I've played guitar, I've ripped my gear apart. Different pickups, wire different things to push/pull pots, mod pedals, re-cap tube amps, etc. Basically, I have this natural inclination to tinker, and... that takes away from my playing time! If I had something like a Kemper, I'd _never_ stop playing with profiles and settings, trying to match every tone I've ever liked. And I'd never really sit down and transcribe a song, or run through scales with the metronome, or ya know... actually get better at guitar.

As for rather losing a finger than play digital... I'd rather be forced to play nothing but my HM-2W through a set of a computer speakers for the rest of my life than lose any part of any bodily appendage.

Lastly, I don't really agree that you'll learn about amps by using digital. I don't think you even learn that much about amps by reading schematics (even if you have the EE background to understand what's actually happening in each component), or poking around inside amps, if you don't have the proper foundation. And the only way to get that, imo, is sitting with an amp, twisting the knobs (the ones on your amp AND your guitar!), and playing (don't forget to listen, these experiments help you pick up subtle nuances between similar sounds). Probably best to do this with simple, single channel circuits, with no pedals. If you start with a JVM410H, god help you. A Champ? You'll learn that one real quick. Once you think you've got that down, start adding stuff to the amp. You start figuring out why things like bright caps exist, why the classic overdrive circuits cut bass, etc. real quick
I’ve owned and gigged over 40 different amps. When I started using digital, I learned about some I’d never heard of, and gained a better understanding of all their components. It was a process and another part of the journey.

I love glass. Always have and always will. But digital is a lot of fun and extremely effective, too.

Whatever makes you happy but let’s keep this in perspective at least a little. It’s my job and it’s a lot of work and I’ve put a lot of work into it, but I do love it and it’s fun.

I’m only suggesting people take a step back and you know, maybe challenge yourself for once, and not everyone around you.

And it was a difficult process for me. I did not want to go digital. But I am really glad I was put in a situation where I had to challenge myself and my own bias.
 
Messages
327
Hey, mods. Can I get an exception to the whole name calling rule for this one?

I only ask because this is one of the dumbest things I’ve read on TGP in a while.

Please let me know.

I have to respect the doubling down, particularly with the user name "pedal enthusiast". So you clearly have no issue using solid state components in your signal path. Is it just DSPs you have an issue with? I hope that means you're vehemently opposed to Strymon then?
i hate strymon, correct.
 

El Rey

Double Platinum Member
Messages
2,317
Except film is making a comeback! Audiences tire of cgi and hi-res... just as CDs are known to trigger listening fatigue, hi-res viewing is known to result in anxiety and paranoia, in addition to hallucinations and memory loss. Film is safer.
What's old is new, and what's new is old.

Happens during dearths of creativity.

Much like threads of late including this one.

Good morning bizarro world/bizarro thread.
 




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