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large deposit, long wait

2tone

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
583
I've experienced this disappointing, all to common scenario, much too often. Too many builders take deposits, often 50 to 100%, and quote you a time to delivery. Then , instead of 2 or 3 months delivery, it grows to 6, 8, 12 or more months because of poor production planning, unavailable parts, subcontracted labor delays etc etc. To me, a builder should know fairly accurately his production capability before he takes deposits. Sure, some builders get swamped with orders, but they should still be able to estimate a fairly accurate delivery time. I don't think any deposit should be taken unless the builder has the available parts at the time of order, and knows a realistic production rate. Long delays due to poor production estimates, parts shortages etc should require a refund of deposit and keep the position on the list until the item is ready, then payment due at time of shipping. I can see the logic in taking a deposit with orders. But only if you can guarantee delivery close to the estimated time given at initial order. But in most cases, super long delays are due to poor planning, inaccurate estimates of production capability, and not all the parts in at time of order. A second job being too consuming is not an excuse. The builder should honor his committment at time of order and taking a deposit.Alternate day job or not, you shouldn't be keeping someone's money that long due to your own failure to produce. Amen
 

ramjet2007

Member
Messages
665
ABSOLUTELY AND TOTALLY AGREE!!!

I think there should be some cap on deposit amounts, whether just a moral obligation or actually somehow enforced, even just from collective will. Say 25%? That would pay for parts at my estimation!

Let's do a quick comparison - I work in the Architectural industry, and also have had a wholesale supply business. In both cases I have to produce the completed goods or services before payment, and even then in most cases there is a 30 day account to wait for payment. On rare occasions I am able to ask for a deposit, but these are usually no more than 10%. This gives me incentive to prioritise any delivery commitment I have made in order to be fully paid. Fair enough for both parties.

Let's be fair builders, and most of you are so don't get us wrong here. I don't mind paying a large deposit or full amount upfront personally, but have been burnt myself a couple of times with drawn out delivery times. THAT'S the thorn in our sides...
 

jpagey

Member
Messages
4,219
Smells like another diy command.
Buy what you want, get on the waitlists you want. You don't like the policy? Don't buy/don't wait.
 
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Blakemore

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
774
I agree. We have a long wait list at the moment right now on our Lunar Echo pedals. It is great to be busy, but we are not a huge company so it is hard to keep up.

I dont know about other business's but I hate it just as much if not more than the people waiting on the gear. I dont know why, but for some reason I dont like hanging onto peoples money until the product is ready, its really the only feasable way for us to do it, but i still don't like it haha. We aren't going to run away with anyone's cash, but just being a player and a fair business owner, its just not something i enjoy doing.

I totally agree with you on this thread :)
 

cbpickin

Tweed Supporting Member
Gold Supporting Member
Messages
7,146
Smells like another diy command.
Buy what you want, get on the waitlists you want. You don't like the policy? Don't buy/don't wait.
The problem with your logic is that buyers are often quoted reasonable wait times like 3-4 weeks which then turn into 6, 9 or 12+ months after the product has been prepaid in full.
When I have known a product is going to take 6 months to a year to show up, many times I have still chosen to place an order. I know what I'm getting into and include that in my decision when I spend my money.
I have no problem with someone undershooting by a few weeks, but some of the builders we are referring to are considerably more off on there estimates.
 

traynor_garnet

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
3,083
After the quoted wait time expires, builders should start paying interest on your down payment (after all, it would earn something in your savings account if it were sitting there). They could just take the "interest" off the amount owing when the product is actually ready. This would also prevent builders from giving overly optimistic build times just to get your deposit.

TG
 
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rhinocaster

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
24,066
The problem with your logic is that buyers are often quoted reasonable wait times like 3-4 weeks which then turn into 6, 9 or 12+ months after the product has been prepaid in full.
When I have known a product is going to take 6 months to a year to show up, many times I have still chosen to place an order. I know what I'm getting into and include that in my decision when I spend my money.
I have no problem with someone undershooting by a few weeks, but some of the builders we are referring to are considerably more off on there estimates.
Exactly. In these cases, the buyer was OK with the terms and wait time presented at the time of order. That time gets pushed back to extreme wait times AFTER the order. How is the buyer supposed to take any kind of responsibility for that?
 

playthecray

Member
Messages
4,263
Either honor the commitment, or stop requiring a deposit up front. There are plenty of reputable pedal builders that do not require any deposit.
 

flampton

Member
Messages
279
Before I purchase I decide on the level that the dealer is at. I have no problem giving DMB my cash up front because they are breaking into the market. But once a pedal builder is established and has a secure cash line then they should only take deposits to secure the pedal. I think 50% to 10% of the pedal price is reasonable. Some awesome builders will take nothing, because they have demand and know that if you flake on the pedal they already have it sold to the next Joe.
 

doublee

Member
Messages
4,432
Me I would never enter into an arrangement like that in the first place, there are zillions of other available options out there, I mean what could possibly be so precious?
 

whoismarykelly

Oh look! This is a thing I can change!
Messages
8,141
My one reason for taking deposits is that I only produce custom pedals for a specific buyer and since musicians are notorious for being flakey, I would rather have payment up front so there is no runaround for payment or completed payment later on. It actually gets them their pedal a week or so sooner.
 
Messages
5,124
I don't know the seller side of things too well, but I get the sense that these small batch pedals go pretty fast. Is it not reasonable to assume (and I am really curious, not being a smart-ass) that you can make 20 pedals, then sell them, then make 20 more, then sell them, and so on? Not including those who ONLY do one-offs.
 

flampton

Member
Messages
279
to reiterate on what WHIM said. If you are asking for a pedal from a low volume dealer then you should expect to pay full price before you see it because they do not have the name or cash to turn it immediately. Its called economics. and from just selling things on ebay I can tell you that people are flakey(not sure if I'd call them musicians though)
 

Chonny

Senior Member
Messages
3,215
A lot of times people do buy on a whim. I mean these are guitar effects and not automobiles or homes.

Some times people might be after a certain sound and they have figured out a pedal that will take them there. After 2-3 months maybe they played the gig they wanted the pedal for, maybe they changed their mind, maybe they got a different pedal.

I can think of NUMEROUS ways to balance a wait list. I would never start a list unless I had the parts to fill the orders in a list. The people that really want the pedal will be paying attention to email or phone calls. In extreme circumstances such as "Hey Im leaving the country for a month" a simple phone call to the builder would take care of things. I like the personal experience in working with the small builders.

Anyone with a hot item that sells needs to take advantage and hire a couple henchmen to help them get out products before the bubble bursts and demand drops.
 




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