Last Night, at Band Rehearsal.......

Discussion in 'The Sound Hound Lounge' started by bloozetubes, Mar 2, 2012.

  1. Seraphine

    Seraphine Member

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    Kriskov... How much should I charge you in MY band.. for using MY PA SYSTEM and 10s of thousands of dollars in gear? You would never be in any Band I have... ever... you act like you're a hired gun and any band I've ever been in doesn't need to hire help ( for a band member ).... You wouldn't want to pay for the use of the Bands PA would you?

    All in a band pay for basics man... Like a bloody PA or up-grading. Any band that doesn't have cases full of leads / chords etc, is not of the caliber I work with. I was responding to a post using the term "professional" which I consider having different meaning to different people / bands... I for one never have and never will work with a band as you propose things... A band that doesn't have cases of strings.. leads.. and essentials... is not professional in my book.

    You don't want to pay for someone elses strings or leads eh? Wait till you get the bill for everything else you'll be paying for with your "job"... Pay for the PA up-grade man... Pay for the tech and roadies.. pay for the leads.. strings.. equipment and hundreds of required tools and gear for The Band. Hell man, who do you think PAYS the producer? or for the Studio time?

    Maybe a small time bar/pub band is what some consider professional or a "job" but I'm talking about the real thing... Try going to a studio and having them say they don't have a lead or gtr strings lol... call that a job? try calling it amateurs.. People can claim they are pros... but if they sweat strings and leads and CRAP... I never wasted my time with 'em... I've got better work to do.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2012
  2. imastratoholic

    imastratoholic Supporting Member

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    I'm all for occasionally lending a cable or something that somebody forgot. But supplying somebody with gear is too much. I wonder what he would do if you just stop carrying extras for him? No, not to jeopardize the gig, but to put it in perspective for him. You could still keep extras in the car, but not on stage to supply him.
     
  3. bloozetubes

    bloozetubes Member

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    hi, OP here. i didnt mean to start an argument, i was just venting.

    i carry extra picks, strings and cords for myself as well as my friend. my bad.

    maybe ill take it up with him soon, maybe not.

    i appreciate reading other peoples, other musos, thots and ideas on the subject.

    thanks again..........
     
  4. stratotastic

    stratotastic Member

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    LOL - what? That wasn't a stance, it was a question.
     
  5. straightblues

    straightblues Member

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    Sounds like to me that you like the guy and his music. Make him successful.

    Why not prepare a backup kit for him. Include cords, lyric sheets for all your songs, a pedal or two, some strings. You just bring it and have it ready should you need it. That way, you will be prepared to your satisfaction and it will become a non issue. Make sure you get it all back at the end of the night so your backup kit remains complete.

    This backup kit would cost you very little and will give you peace of mind. Yeah, you could dig your heals in and break up the band over this or continue to let resentment build, or for a few dollar and minimal extra work, you could fix it.
     
  6. Kriskov

    Kriskov Silver Supporting Member

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    Sorry to disappoint you, but I do own the PA. So maybe I should charge you? I understand what you are saying if the band is making good consistent money and doing a volume of business that allows for some musical inventory. In that situation I also would expect some shared costs. Most situations are more bar band and I think everyone should try and pull their own weight. The OP was willing to overlook some things for his bandmate and I respect that, but I know I'd get tired of the spaciness. I'm actually very generous with my gear , time and labor. I have, however had those folks that just want to mooch off the band, do little to help out and get paid a full share like the others that bust ass. Not my preferred MO. It's best if everyone pitches in. My .02 cents. P.S. I realize I came off as pretty hardass above and I apologize.
     
  7. Seraphine

    Seraphine Member

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    No worries man...

    Yea, it's a good policy even for forming bands to invest in the band and "stuff"... I guess the OP's friend would be glad too.. especially if part of it comes from his share and he doesn't have a chance to forget lol...

    Ok you probably could or would work with me in a band... I take that bit back.. sorry...
     
  8. Seraphine

    Seraphine Member

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    Nah it's alright man... It reminds me of a band arguing over what and how we might be doing something.. usually always about the music and not personal... A sort of healthy family relations kind of thing lol...

    I get the feeling things are alright with your band and this guy etc.. I get a good feeling from your post. do you guys compose / originals etc? Have a studio to rehearse in.. even a well built brick place lol?...

    I for one like it all to be fun.. If it's not fun, don't play it etc.. For some reason I get a good feeling from your situation and band.. don't know why...

    Good Luck man... and I guess it'll all be just fine.

    I don't know... but maybe this thing is just a strange way for you to bring up with the band.. hey.. let's go for more and do something we want to do... Like put on our own shows outdoors or something... Good Luck man...
     
  9. StompBoxBlues

    StompBoxBlues Member

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    Most, if not ALL bands I have ever been in (just a rough count,
    about 20 or more) are imperfect.

    Lots of folks here have "rules" about how it ought to be, but
    personally, I have never experienced it being so cut and dried.

    There is almost always a weak link musically, at least one (or more)
    that can't play as well as they ought to and often these are the
    folks that obviously don't practice at all or as much.

    There are almost always some folks that are prepared, have extra
    equipment that might be needed (strings, tuner, tubes for amps,
    etc.) and can play.

    There are always some folks that skate, others that put a lot into
    not only the band and music, but also the day-to-day stuff like
    web-page, songlists, etc.

    There is always some kind of conflict on song choices, etc.

    It's in the nature of being in a band, especially one where there
    are no salaried folk, no one leader.

    Lots of musicians end up going solo, or duet, because they get too fed up with the compromises. I've tried that too, but the plus side is a band CAN often give you something that no solo project, or duet can.

    You either take the good with the bad, or at any given time try and gauge if you are getting what you want (mostly...it's never total) out of the band, even at a price of aggravation, etc. It's a balancing act.

    I'm not convinced that if I ever DID have a band with "perfect members" that did everything the way I think they ought to be done, and played how I want, that it would really be as good as I think.

    Sometimes the weaknesses of a band are actually its strength too, sometimes the friction in a band (when not TOO bad) can produce BETTER music overall than when all are in agreement and smooth.

    Bands are imperfect...The only thing I can control is how much I put into it, and if I stay or go, or if we as a band vote out a person. It helps to learn to let go, to just play, and if some one or part is too bad, try and address it constructively, but it is always going to be imperfect, and we all choose whether to be aggravated (sometimes to the point where it is NO fun at all) or not.
     
  10. hp29

    hp29 Member

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    I've got two of those in my band, which makes it even more interresting.
    I used to leave spare stuff in the rehearsal room until I discovered that Guy A used it as he pleased and even brought it to gigs with his other band.
    My favorite experience however was one time Guy B walked out of the rehearsal room with a stand of mine. When I asked him if he was raised in a barn, he simply replied that he asked Guy A and it was cool. Needless to say, the only place that stand went was back to my house...
     
  11. Lightningrt

    Lightningrt Member

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    I'd just keep taking the p*ss out of the guy, become more and more sarcastic until he got the message in front of the rest of the band - "what do you need to borrow tonight?.. I'm gonna start charging you for these... Here's a checklist of what to remember for the next gig... Don't forget your set lists for the next gig - oh hang on I'll print one extra off for X " etc etc Relentless sarcasm often works. If not, you have to say something like "you know we take the pee out of you, seriously, one night there won't be a spare strap and you'll have to sit on a chair all night"...

    Perhaps that's just the British way...
     
  12. roverdog

    roverdog Member

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  13. bloozetubes

    bloozetubes Member

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    again, i was just ranting. it has nothing to do with being forgetful. but i thot it might give people a better idea of what we deal with. i only mentioned his gear because i fix or repair his gear monthly to make sure it works properly so ill have less to deal with at gigs.

    there, ive opened myself up to more hammering, which i may or may not deserve.
     
  14. bloozetubes

    bloozetubes Member

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    we rehearse in the bass players basement/studio. he owns 75% of the PA and i own the other 25%. we all sing harmony, and share lead vocal duty. i play guitar and maintain equip/gear. drummer does all advert/ website work. bass player has big truck and books 100% of the gigs. other 'guitar player/keys guy' carries more than his share of the gear at gigs and runs snake, mics up everything, and does a great job of it too. everyone moves equip, and no one complains. we have originals but only play them when requested.

    we get along great, and hang out when not gigging. im afraid if i say anything i will mess up the chemistry, ive been in the band less than a year....they've been together over 10 years. they never said what happened to the last guy..................
     
  15. Phoenix59

    Phoenix59 Member

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    I figure that if ANY of us ever found the "perfect" band...

    ...they wouldn't hire us. ;) It's all about compromise.
     
  16. buddaman71

    buddaman71 Student of Life Silver Supporting Member

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    man...reading this thread has made me realize that, for the most part, I've been VERY blessed to have played with the various musicians I've worked with over the last 25 years...sure, a few airheads here and there, but absolutely at least 85-90% have been levelheaded, competent, professional, courteous guys who just love playing music and were good at it.

    Of course I KNOW many of the stereotypical loser, never-work-at-ALL-yet-always-complain-about-being-broke, never have usable gear, lazy, undependable, substance-abusing, shady "musicians" but, as a rule, I try to shy away from that club and play with guys who are decent people and serious.

    I am fortunate to have a pretty decent list of "hey, if you ever need a gig, just call me!" contacts in my network, and that allows me to just not develop associations with guys who will just waste my time and effort.

    PS: As for mentioning gear, yea...it's reasonable to expect that anyone who wants to play a paying gig should have USABLE gear. Doesn't have to be fancy or $$$, but it should WORK. I had a fiddle player BEG to come play with my band for months. Told me all these pros he's jammed with and actually had a couple nice references (people I knew actually) who said he was a good player.

    I had a pretty nice show booked, so I finally told him to come sit in as a informal audition. He shows up with an ANCIENT tiny tube amp and a $15 contact pickup stuck to his fiddle. The amp hummed so incredibly loud (louder than the signal) that it was impossible to mic and push through the very nice PA system. No way to go direct, as the stick on pickup literally had almost zero gain and when you could hear it, all it did was squeal. Mic'ing the fiddle with an overhead was NOT an option in the venue or loud, rocking style. I asked him about the amp and he said, "yea...it's been humming like that for a LONG time..."

    My point is, if you do freelance mechanic work, you're EXPECTED to have at least the minimum tools of the trade. Don't have to have a Snap-On Franchise, but you DO have to have basic wrenches, sockets, etc. Being a musician is no different.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2012
  17. gillman royce

    gillman royce Member

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    :agree
     
  18. mtmartin71

    mtmartin71 Silver Supporting Member

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    Very well stated. In my experience, if you have someone who is a) agreeable, b) performs well, and c) has good stage presence, you can look past a lot of the other stuff. I saw this mentioned on another thread about a coffee house duo doing a cover of Africa, but they mentioned that people care most about the singer and that delineates your band from the others. Doesn't necessarily mean straight singing talent either...just means the singer's presence. Anyway, if this guy from the OP does 45% of their stuff and he's solid, I'd err on helping him be successful vs. the alternative.
     
  19. Telefunky

    Telefunky Member

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    This is completely fixable:

    1. Avoid making him feel "wrong" or ganged-up on. We ALL have shortcomings, but it makes us feel judged and take a defensive position when people tell us we are "less than".
    Never refer to someone as 'disorganized', 'forgetful' or any other name because they will inevitably LIVE UP TO THE TITLE YOU GAVE THEM. They literally ASSUME that identity in your presence.


    2. As a group, simply express the IMPACT these incidents have. Each person should use their own words, but an example would be: "when we pull into the club, we want to be excited about the show, but instead we are finding ourselves NERVOUS that you may not have everything you need. This really makes it tough to relax and focus on the MUSIC."
    (notice the SUBJECT of the sentence isn't HIM, it's HOW YOU ARE LEFT FEELING)

    3. Ask him how the group can support him in this area. He might ask for a checklist, he may offer to buy a drink for every item borrowed, who knows... Let HIM offer solutions until everyone can be onboard.

    4. Let him determine what a reasonable consequence should be if he fails to live up to his agreement.

    5. Remember, the idea isn't to make him feel like a loser, it's simply to CREATE A SOLUTION THAT SUPPORTS THE TEAM.

    Best wishes! Feel free to PM me if you'd like more clarity around this approach.
     
  20. bloozetubes

    bloozetubes Member

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    thanks Telefunky! good suggestions there.

    i might speak with the other guys first and see how they feel.

    i say it doesnt bother me, but it kinda does.
     

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