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Last Night, at Band Rehearsal.......

Telefunky

Member
Messages
2,725
That it bothers you is perfectly normal. Simply document the EFFECT it has on you and let him know SPECIFICALLY what it is. In other words, it makes you FEEL something. Say the exact way it makes you feel.

This way, you're not even talking about HIM, only the way you feel every time this happens. Let us know how it turns out!
 

TFC

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
651
If you've got good chemistry in the band otherwise, I'd just tell the guy that the next time he needs to borrow something of yours because he forgot to bring his, he's got to buy you a beer. It's win/win.
 

bloozetubes

Member
Messages
620
the guy the brings beer to every practice

sings all the Journey, Queen, Foreigner and Kansas and all higher harmonies

plays guitar, keyboards, harmonica, mandolyn, violin

and is the funniest guy i ever met
 

Telefunky

Member
Messages
2,725
If you've got good chemistry in the band otherwise, I'd just tell the guy that the next time he needs to borrow something of yours because he forgot to bring his, he's got to buy you a beer. It's win/win.
It's truly a win-win only if everyone created that agreement beforehand. Technically what you're proposing is a punishment.

A very delightful punishment indeed, but nevertheless...
 

Seraphine

Member
Messages
3,613
the guy the brings beer to every practice

sings all the Journey, Queen, Foreigner and Kansas and all higher harmonies

plays guitar, keyboards, harmonica, mandolyn, violin

and is the funniest guy i ever met
with him singing those tunes, he can do REO's "Roll With The Changes"... So call him now and everyone else and say "Let's do REO's "Roll With The Changes"..... and ask the guy to not forget some essential bit / gear etc, because the song Rocks and we want to nail it....

The Lyrics of this tune should help remedy things... and in a subtle manner at that!

 

dohootowl

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
3,450
I had something similar so I just came to practice one time and told the guy "You know, I've had a tough time remembering everything for a gig because I get so excited. The only way I can remember everything so I didn't let you guys down was to make a checklist. I fill one out EVERY time we have a gig so I don't forget anything. Want a copy? Let me know if I've forgotten anything or if you think it can be improved or tailored to other guys in the band."

He never took offense since it was MY problem.
+1 Gajilion! I can't get by without a checklist.
 

Chris Scott

Member
Messages
9,037
Our bass player is like this. Shows up at the last possible minute ( sometimes late ), doesn't have a cord or forgot some such thing. In fact, his amp was so bad sounding I bought a bass amp rig for him to play through because I couldn't stand the sound of his rat **** amp. But, he sings great, has great stage presence, and plays bass very well. So, we just give him a pass and realize that's just the way he is. Tried talking with him about it and he got a bit defensive, stating the problems in his life. Well, we all got some sort of problems, so again, we just give him a pass. The thing is, I really like the guy, so what does that say about me?
It says that you are a wise person.
 

spamsponge

Member
Messages
868
the guy the brings beer to every practice

sings all the Journey, Queen, Foreigner and Kansas and all higher harmonies

plays guitar, keyboards, harmonica, mandolyn, violin

and is the funniest guy i ever met
No wonder he forgets ****. He's carrying around 5X the instruments... :)
The more I have to bring the more probable it is I will forget something. However... When it matters I use a checklist.
 

Nurk2

"Ignore Everybody" ~Hugh MacLeod
Messages
8,081
My point is, if you do freelance mechanic work, you're EXPECTED to have at least the minimum tools of the trade. Don't have to have a Snap-On Franchise, but you DO have to have basic wrenches, sockets, etc. Being a musician is no different.
This. I'm absolutely with you 100%.

I think the whole "make a checklist and check it twice thing" is a bogus waste of time. But I think that because I've been doing this a long time, and I have about three ways of getting my signal two a board at any gig I show up for. I carry it all (including a 5lb 120W backup head) in a single bag.

I can't tell you the number of jobs I've gotten to where the hiring person has gone from stressed to smiling simply because I'm able to say the words, "Don't worry, I've got it covered."

What carpenter is going to need a checklist to remind him to pack a saw, a ladder, and nails?
 
Last edited:

Nurk2

"Ignore Everybody" ~Hugh MacLeod
Messages
8,081
This is completely fixable:

1. Avoid making him feel "wrong" or ganged-up on. We ALL have shortcomings, but it makes us feel judged and take a defensive position when people tell us we are "less than".
Never refer to someone as 'disorganized', 'forgetful' or any other name because they will inevitably LIVE UP TO THE TITLE YOU GAVE THEM. They literally ASSUME that identity in your presence.

2. As a group, simply express the IMPACT these incidents have. Each person should use their own words, but an example would be: "when we pull into the club, we want to be excited about the show, but instead we are finding ourselves NERVOUS that you may not have everything you need. This really makes it tough to relax and focus on the MUSIC."
(notice the SUBJECT of the sentence isn't HIM, it's HOW YOU ARE LEFT FEELING)

3. Ask him how the group can support him in this area. He might ask for a checklist, he may offer to buy a drink for every item borrowed, who knows... Let HIM offer solutions until everyone can be onboard.

4. Let him determine what a reasonable consequence should be if he fails to live up to his agreement.

5. Remember, the idea isn't to make him feel like a loser, it's simply to CREATE A SOLUTION THAT SUPPORTS THE TEAM.

Best wishes! Feel free to PM me if you'd like more clarity around this approach.
Unfortunately, you are completely wrong!!!

:beer

I have a person in my life who I love more than any adult I've ever loved. And she and I work together on many many jobs throughout the course of the year.

She has ADD, and I've tried repeatedly to express exactly what you are expressing - that it would be so much more relaxing if she just had all her **** together ahead of time so we can enjoy a great night playing. But time after time I'm left showing up late, with her organizing her music and other stuff on the way to the gig, at the last possible moment.

Can I tell you? She HATES this as much as I do. And she tries, repeatedly, to the point of tears sometimes to get it together - but unless she got just the right combination of meds., it ain't happening.

Positive reinforcement and negative reinforcement only work on people whose systems are set up to receive and respond to those sorts of inducement. Without those systems, you are pushing string.

But is it worth it? Absolutely!!! She's one of the best musicians I get to work with - maybe the best (and a first-call accompanist in the small city we work in). People LOVE her and she loves people. She has great energy and great musicianship. She has NEVER failed on stage... once we get to the stage.

Bottomline is this: pick your battles wisely by understanding what you are up against. What you're saying makes perfect sense for people whose brains are wired a certain way..., and is COMPLETELY INEFFECTIVE for people whose brains are wired another way. It's taken me years to understand this and even then it still pisses me off at times.

Frustrating? F*ck yeah. But the compassion that we extend to others is the compassion that we receive in return.
 

StompBoxBlues

Member
Messages
19,936
This. I think the whole "make a checklist and check it twice thing" is a bogus waste of time. But I think that because I've been doing this a long time, and I have about three ways of getting my signal two a board at any gig I show up for. I carry it all (including a 5lb 120W backup head) in a single bag.

I can't tell you the number of jobs I've gotten to where the hiring person has gone from stressed to smiling simply because I'm able to say the words, "Don't worry, I've got it covered."
That stuff works out after time too. We just last week played a club, one that we played last year, but in the meantime they had some of their PA equipment stolen. Medium size stage, we get there...they have ONE power strip with 4 outlets.

We need at least 10 outlets (amps, pedalboard, monitors, keyboards, etc.). Luckily for years now I carry extra strips with long cables.
Brought my own mic and stand also, which turned out to be necessary even though we had asked.
Talked with the owner after, he mentions "yeah, we had a jazz trio here last week, they also had a hard time with the power situation" (a TRIO!!) yet it didn't occur to go out and get some more strips.

I also think a checklist is much, or rather...a detailed one (2 mic cords, 2 guitar stands, etc.") but a general one isn't bad. Mainly I have an extra suitcase with power strips, mic, cord, gaffer tape, collapsible guitar stands (the Hero ones, great!), extra speaker cable, power cord. I don't have to think so much, unless I use UP something, or lose it, but otherwise that one suitcase has what I need for extra equipment. Otherwise, I bring everything except amp to the rehearsal room, so I am used to being sure I have it all. One bag always has extra strings, rectifier tube, preamp tubes, flashlight, screwdriver that can be phillips or regular, fuses, instrument cable.
 

Lightningrt

Member
Messages
911
That stuff works out after time too. We just last week played a club, one that we played last year, but in the meantime they had some of their PA equipment stolen. Medium size stage, we get there...they have ONE power strip with 4 outlets.

We need at least 10 outlets (amps, pedalboard, monitors, keyboards, etc.). Luckily for years now I carry extra strips with long cables.
Brought my own mic and stand also, which turned out to be necessary even though we had asked.
Talked with the owner after, he mentions "yeah, we had a jazz trio here last week, they also had a hard time with the power situation" (a TRIO!!) yet it didn't occur to go out and get some more strips.

I also think a checklist is much, or rather...a detailed one (2 mic cords, 2 guitar stands, etc.") but a general one isn't bad. Mainly I have an extra suitcase with power strips, mic, cord, gaffer tape, collapsible guitar stands (the Hero ones, great!), extra speaker cable, power cord. I don't have to think so much, unless I use UP something, or lose it, but otherwise that one suitcase has what I need for extra equipment. Otherwise, I bring everything except amp to the rehearsal room, so I am used to being sure I have it all. One bag always has extra strings, rectifier tube, preamp tubes, flashlight, screwdriver that can be phillips or regular, fuses, instrument cable.
We have gone off topic a bit but all of the above applies to our band too. It's wise to have a pessimistic attitude to what you are told before a gig will be there. Between us the bass player and myself always cover most eventualities.
 

bloozetubes

Member
Messages
620
hi, OP here. spoke with the bass player and drummer last night

they both understand, feel the same way and would appreciate it if nothing was said

they've been dealing with this for 10 years and dont see it changing anytime soon

i said cool, i carry enough extra gear anyway so its really no big deal

my OP was just a vent/rant but i learned a lot from this post, thanks guys it was very helpful
 

Kriskov

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
584
Great post! I guess I'd never really tried to look at it from the afflicted person's perspective. When OP detailed all the stuff the guy has to lug around I felt like he was lucky to show up with most of it. Having somebody you really like to play with excuses a lot of failings. I always carry everything I could possibly need to every gig, so I'm the guy with extension cords, power strips etc. You never know what you'll need that the venue hasn't thought about. The easy thing for me is I have a big van and most of those things stay packed in there so I don't have to remember them.

Unfortunately, you are completely wrong!!!

:beer

I have a person in my life who I love more than any adult I've ever loved. And she and I work together on many many jobs throughout the course of the year.

She has ADD, and I've tried repeatedly to express exactly what you are expressing - that it would be so much more relaxing if she just had all her **** together ahead of time so we can enjoy a great night playing. But time after time I'm left showing up late, with her organizing her music and other stuff on the way to the gig, at the last possible moment.

Can I tell you? She HATES this as much as I do. And she tries, repeatedly, to the point of tears sometimes to get it together - but unless she got just the right combination of meds., it ain't happening.

Positive reinforcement and negative reinforcement only work on people whose systems are set up to receive and respond to those sorts of inducement. Without those systems, you are pushing string.

But is it worth it? Absolutely!!! She's one of the best musicians I get to work with - maybe the best (and a first-call accompanist in the small city we work in). People LOVE her and she loves people. She has great energy and great musicianship. She has NEVER failed on stage... once we get to the stage.

Bottomline is this: pick your battles wisely by understanding what you are up against. What you're saying makes perfect sense for people whose brains are wired a certain way..., and is COMPLETELY INEFFECTIVE for people whose brains are wired another way. It's taken me years to understand this and even then it still pisses me off at times.

Frustrating? F*ck yeah. But the compassion that we extend to others is the compassion that we receive in return.
 

Rockledge

Member
Messages
5,557
No wonder he forgets ****. He's carrying around 5X the instruments... :)
The more I have to bring the more probable it is I will forget something. However... When it matters I use a checklist.
Not to mention he is remembering all the lyrics. If I had to remember Journey and Queen lyrics I am thinking I would probably forget my ass AND show up to gigs with odd socks on.
 




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