Les Paul Std. valuation question

Discussion in 'Guitars in General' started by wrxplayer, Apr 28, 2008.

  1. wrxplayer

    wrxplayer Supporting Member

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    Here's the deal. I bought an '01 Gibson Les Paul Std. two months ago. It was advertised as a "Premium Plus" model. Tax man beat me up a bit two weeks ago and I am selling it. In researching a neck question from a prospective buyer, I find out that it is not a PP but rather a LP Std. I'm going to contact the owner and request an adjustment. Using ebay it would appear that the difference is about $200-$250. Does that sound about right?
     
  2. Phil M

    Phil M Member

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    Good luck with that!

    I think Premium Plus refers to the grade of the top, but the guitar could still be a Standard. Actually, I thought those were usually Classics ... anyway, what does the truss rod cover say? Not that it would mean much, I'm just curious.
     
  3. Guitar Josh

    Guitar Josh Resident Curmudgeon Silver Supporting Member

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    Gibson kept horrible records at Plus and PP tops. Post a pic, I'll be able to tell relatively easily.
     
  4. mc5nrg

    mc5nrg Supporting Member

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    What does the top look like? I can't comment on your particular guitar but IIRC there have been LP Standards with upgraded tops. The info would be on the original inspection tag with the model abbreviation and probably retail receipt from the original sale.
     
  5. wrxplayer

    wrxplayer Supporting Member

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    Thanks. Here are three:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  6. buckwild

    buckwild Silver Supporting Member

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    I've found that a wording for Premium Plus or Plus is always second to actual pictures of the flame. People will spend more if it looks like a more killer top.
     
  7. Guitar Josh

    Guitar Josh Resident Curmudgeon Silver Supporting Member

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    Keep in mind Gibson's flame scale. Their top rating is AAAAA (5x A). That's a class 5. A normal LP standard will have AA flame. Yours is easily a Plus top, and may be a PP, but I'd have to see it in person, and even then, it's hard to say. Without the card, we may never be sure.
     
  8. wrxplayer

    wrxplayer Supporting Member

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    Thanks very much for your help. This place rocks.:RoCkIn
     
  9. trower

    trower Silver Supporting Member

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    What ever it is, that a sweet looking Paul...good luck.
     
  10. hackenfort

    hackenfort Supporting Member

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    That a very nice top, as good or better than many Prem Plus.

    Best of luck
     
  11. geddins81

    geddins81 Member

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    Pull the neck pup...if it's a PP it COULD be indicated there as well
     
  12. JPB2

    JPB2 Member

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    Yes, it would say "LPS+" or "LPSP+" under the neck pick-up
     
  13. wrxplayer

    wrxplayer Supporting Member

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    Follow up: The guy who sold me the guitar here reiterated that it was a PP. He also had the guy he bought it from tell me it was a PP. I sold it to another TGP member who took it home, called Gibson, and took the next step of removing the pickup to see. He found no evidence that its a PP. Because he like I bought with a view toward selling at roughly the same price he bought at, and because there is a roughly $300 difference in value due to the top (based on ebay sales) I made a refund to him. Hopefully the guy I bought it from and the guy he bought it from will share in the loss. :NUTS
     
  14. Zhangliqun

    Zhangliqun Member

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    The Premium Plus designation doesn't mean crap if you ask me. I've seen plenty of non-PP's that had better flame than PP's so I'm not sure what their grading criteria are for this or if they have any at all.

    Yours has flame that's a little straight for my tastes but it's still really nice and seems to go well with that darkburst finish. (It also has the 1960 burst style reflector top knobs -- were those stock?)

    I think if you set your price at PP-level (you don't have to call it a PP) and post pictures, you'll probably get a buyer. If you don't, you can always drop the price.
     
  15. wrxplayer

    wrxplayer Supporting Member

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    Guitar was sold - see two posts up. Knobs were upgrades.
     
  16. TattooedCarrot

    TattooedCarrot Supporting Member

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    The PP designation doesn't mean anything. I've seen weak PP and I've seen strong standard tops. What you see dictates how good the top is, not a PP designation on a warranty inspection card. If you cannot tell if your guitar has a PP quality top or not, the PP designation is really pretty irrelevant as there is no other differences in the models of which to speak, PP is not its own model. That one looks like a pretty nice top to me.
     
  17. Macs69

    Macs69 Member

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    I agree. I'm going to chip in some money since I want to keep my reputation on here spotless, but the guitar is a slam dunk Premium Plus in my eyes. If it had a crap top, and an ink stamp on it, no one would like it. It's a great player with a beautiful top. Anyone should be pleased with it.
     
  18. J.T.

    J.T. Supporting Member

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    I was the one who bought this guitar . I drove over 60 Miles to pick it up and pay cash .While i agree its a nice top and I do like the guitar, I have to look at it as an investment and resale value as whoever sold it to whom i bought it from used it in the description which will command more money as it is an upgrade. The serial number as well as the Final Checklist tag which indicates the serial number and model do not indicate a premium plus . There is no marking under the Neck Pickup. I am not sure if this is an indicator but this guitar has a factory pickguard. Do the PP come with a pickguard with a nice top? would make sense that it does not. If the romance is over with this guitar in a few months i have to deal with this on my plate when i try to resell and will have to sell it as a standard with an AAA top. For what its worth i have seen the same model in a bunch of guitar brands and some by chance squeeze out some nice flame while the one next to it will be as plain as vanilla.
     
  19. wrxplayer

    wrxplayer Supporting Member

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    Second update: The guy who sold it to me is going to share a bit in the adjustment. The guy who sold it to him and started the the chain by calling it a premium plus to sell it when it apparently was not has refused to participate. Lesson learned; we move on.
     
  20. vintagecrunch

    vintagecrunch Senior Member

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    I am not sure I follow the logic here completely...
    Isn't it worth what you will pay for it? You thought it worth the price you bought it for, probally because of the top, but now that its not officially a Premium Plus top its not? I mean really, If that guitar was for sale in any shop it would sell for more than a plain top standard and there is no shop owner I have ever met that wouldn't laugh if I where to say it wasn't worth any more than a regular standard...
    Anyone that says the top doesn't dictate the price and that the "offical" Standard clasification does is crazy...
     

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