Lesson: Japanese pentatonic scale

M

Member 995

Is the scale 1 2 b3 5 b6? Do the modes have names?

I need to check what yamaguchi calls it in his pentatonics book.
 

rotren

Member
Messages
2,906
1 2 b3 5 b6 is how I see it too. Just remove the 4th and the 7th from the natural minor scale.
 
M

Member 995

I pulled out my copy of Yamaguchi's pentatonics book. He refers to 1 b2 4 5 b6 as Miyako-bushi in the introduction and 1 b2 4 b5 b7 as Hira-Joshi.

The full set (5-20M) is:
1 b2 4 5 b6
1 3 b5 5 7
1 2 b3 5 b6
1 b2 4 b5 b7
1 3 4 6 7

If you like these, you might also explore the 5-20 set, which has the same intervallic structure. They are the modes of 1 b2 b3 5 b6, which I know as a Javanese slendro scale.
 
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dsimon665

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
735
I pulled out my copy of Yamaguchi's pentatonics book. He refers to 1 b2 4 5 b6 as Miyako-bushi
I like that one...I think any scale without the third is pretty cool.
1 b2 4 5 b6 is interesting with the half steps combined with 1 4 5

here is Messiaen mode 4:
1 b2 2 4 #4 5 b6 7

It contains that pentatonic plus lots of other things...
I like the dim(maj7) based on the 2nd degree.
But again, no third. One of the coolest things about it that scale!

Yamaguchi goes over some of messiaen modes in the geometric pattern book.

Here's a page with some geometric patterns:
http://www.jomarpress.com/nagel/articles/PitchCircles.html

The one Jody refers to as [0 2 6 8] can be used to construct Messiaen mode 4 and 2 (mode 2 aka "half-whole" scale)

set theory...

anyway I'm rambling.
 
M

Member 995

it might be the name "pelog" but they certainly don't use equal temperament.
Same with the Japanese AFAIK ( haha :rotflmao )

Actually you'd be surprised how different the tuning is compared to ET.
For my senior project in college I wrote/performed a piece for gamelan :beer

And I think I had it wrong before: Pelog is a 7 note scale, slendro is 5 note. I was going by a note in Yamaguchi's book, which I think is incorrect.
 
M

Member 995

Do you have a sense of which of the five modes are most common?
 

Clifford-D

Senior Member
Messages
17,046
I pulled out my copy of Yamaguchi's pentatonics book. He refers to 1 b2 4 5 b6 as Miyako-bushi in the introduction and 1 b2 4 b5 b7 as Hira-Joshi.

The full set (5-20M) is:
1 b2 4 5 b6
1 3 b5 5 7
1 2 b3 5 b6
1 b2 4 b5 b7
1 3 4 6 7

If you like these, you might also explore the 5-20 set, which has the same intervallic structure. They are the modes of 1 b2 b3 5 b6, which I know as a Javanese slendro scale.
Thanks for posting those Japanese pents Bryan. Last night I wrote +- 10 bars of an etude based on the first pent 1 b2 4 5 b6. although restricted in ways, in other ways it opens to beautiful harmony. It's absolutely refreshing. I plan to write etudes using all the scales you showed. And I want the book. =)
 
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Messages
321
Do you have a sense of which of the five modes are most common?
I'd say the 1 2 b3 5 b6 is the most common, but most tradition Japanese music doesn't have harmony,and a lot doesn't even have a drone, so it's hard to say. The way it's used now I'd say that it's used in that form as it goes well with minor harmony. I've also heard it used over Lydian harmony, so in that case it would be the 1 3 #4 5 7.

Also I believe the koto is tuned to the 1 2 b3 5 b6 version, so that's another reason I'd say it's the most common. At the end of the day I don't think it matters too much, but sometimes it is fun to nerd out with theory.
 

dsimon665

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
735
Luckily you don't have to get the name right to use it to make music.
no doubt! these are cool scales!

One place I saw 1 b2 4 5 b6 was in Joe Diorio's "intervallic designs" book (I think it was there?)


there's some interesting arpeggios in that scale, if I remember correctly.
Though, maybe it was a different scale from that Intervallic designs book.


I wrote +- 10 bars of an etude based on the first pent 1 b2 4 5 b6. although restricted in ways, in other ways it opens to beautiful harmony. It's absolutely refreshing. I plan to write etudes using all the scales you showed. And I want the book. =)
Check out Diorio's book too! - I think you have it; correct?



For my senior project in college I wrote/performed a piece for gamelan :beer
nice!
 

dsimon665

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
735
I've also heard it used over Lydian harmony, so in that case it would be the 1 3 #4 5 7.
another pentatonic related to that is "mixolydian"

1 3 4 5 7

There's some ragas that use that set. Also I think Eric Johnson uses it.

taking out the 2 and 6 from Mixolydian, combined with the 1/2 step between 3 and 4.

It has a good sound to it, I think.
 

Clifford-D

Senior Member
Messages
17,046
no doubt! these are cool scales!

One place I saw 1 b2 4 5 b6 was in Joe Diorio's "intervallic designs" book (I think it was there?)


there's some interesting arpeggios in that scale, if I remember correctly.
Though, maybe it was a different scale from that Intervallic designs book.




Check out Diorio's book too! - I think you have it; correct?
Yes I have it. REH is one of the best - still after all these years.
I'll look for the pent in it.
 

johann

Member
Messages
2,762
I pulled out my copy of Yamaguchi's pentatonics book. He refers to 1 b2 4 5 b6 as Miyako-bushi in the introduction and 1 b2 4 b5 b7 as Hira-Joshi.

The full set (5-20M) is:
1 b2 4 5 b6
1 3 b5 5 7
1 2 b3 5 b6
1 b2 4 b5 b7
1 3 4 6 7

If you like these, you might also explore the 5-20 set, which has the same intervallic structure. They are the modes of 1 b2 b3 5 b6, which I know as a Javanese slendro scale.

What's the name of the book???
 
M

Member 995

What's the name of the book???
Pentatonicism in Jazz: Creative Aspects and Practice

I also highly recommend his The Complete Thesaurus of Musical Scales, which is great if you are a scale geek like me. :)
 

Clifford-D

Senior Member
Messages
17,046
My suggestion would be to get all three of Randy's books,

The Drop-2 Book - based on Mark Levine's Drop-2 book
Three Note Voicing's
Line Games

I dabble, go to the area's that interest me, over the last couple years I've basically got through all of them.

Having said that, some of his fingering examples are way beyond what I am willing to stretch for a chord. I have to switch to arping it and single note it and that works fine.
But I know Randy, he was my college private instructor back in '85. I still have the piles of paper he piled on me, ok perhaps a folder's worth, but very dense for a jazz newb like me wazz. I went to many of Randy's gigs with Mel Graves on bass (rip).
Mel was a superb bass player, one of the west coast greats.

That all happened before Randy started sitting with a 10 year old Julian Lage. It just gets me how the pile of paper I collected and 30 years later haven't finished, how Julian just ate all that stuff up, and soared quickly beyond, total efficiency.
 






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