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Discussion in 'The Rack Space' started by AnalogKid85, Mar 6, 2016.
What's the model?
Lehle Parallel SW II
Did some long overdue maintenance of my trusty warhorses.
Shot the dust bunnies from the pcm80, dl8000r, and rack interface out with compressed air and exercised all the jacks with Deoxit. Reseated the components in the 80 and broke up any oxidation in the battery clip, as it was behaving weird-responding sluggishly to the encoder wheel. Whatever I did seemed to work! Backed up my Register bank presets over M-Audio Uno Cable to my Windows 10 lappy.
Was having some trouble dumping presets at first.
I attempted to dump the entire register bank of presets in one shot but it wouldn’t let me, as some of my presets required either the pitch fx card or dual fx card, so the 80 basically says cannot dump entire register. Instead I had to dump one preset at a time⏱⏱⏱⏰
With PCM 80 off—
Turn on comp
Insert Uno into comp USB input
-Launch Midi Ox (free downloadable for windows 10)
-Options/Verify proper Midi Device is selected: i use Midi Uno cable—-Ox auto detects the Uno on my lappy and it’s highlighted in the list of possible devices as the midi input and output device
-select View / Sysex
-in sysex view window select Sysex / Receive manual dump which opens a standby window waiting for the sysex file to be sent from pcm80
Plug Uno “to midi input” cable to pcm80 midi in
Plug Uno “to midi out” to pcm80 midi out...Not pcm80 MidiThrough!
-Turn on PCM80
-Load up the preset you wish to dump/back up/send to your computer
-select CONTROL button on pcm80 faceplate
-scroll/select 3.8 MIDI DUMP
-Turn Adjust until you see “current pgm” which will send the currently loaded effect to the midi ox sysex window
-press “store” on pcm80 faceplate and you should see the 80 verify the transfer is complete,
and on the computer see the file transfer verified to the ox sysex view window in kilobytes, and a long code in the lower display window.
If you got that far, select display window on the menu and “save as” whatever you want to name the preset file, and where you wish to send it to (i named a unique file/folder to send these to)
If the dump verifies on pcm80 but doesn’t verify on the computer, try unplugging/reconnecting the usb end of the Uno cable and starting from the “view/sysex” step.
You might also have to turn off pcm80 and close Ox and start over(ox/midi devices/select midi device/etc..always launch Ox first/connect cables before powering up pcm80
Listen with headphones.
Can I ask you what the songtrack is?
Based on the words I would say something in the Vietnam-Cambodia area.
I haven’t the foggiest
i found it hilarious that on the surface it’s some cat yodeling in Vietnamese? and i listened to the whole enchilada LOL
but it is very well recorded and you get to hear the effect in a very clear and accurate way make rather odd vocals strangely listenable!
Round 2 with the pcm 90, and to be dead honest, i think it sounds as good or better than the 91 in this context:
So I have a PCM 70 and PCM 81 that I recently acquired and want to have it gone thru by a technician. First off, who are the reputable repair places? Secondly, what all should I have them do in addition to going through the units? I assume add a battery holder and new battery, and replace the electrolytic caps? Any thing else recommended?
It's beautiful, I love it.
Is it possible to pitch shift just the reverb? Something like a shimmer reverb? Is it possible with a plain Jane PCM 80 or would it require the pitch card?
In case you or anyone else still needs this info, these guys are great and very fair in pricing. https://advancedmusical.com
Well a plain PCM80 doesn't have pitch algorithms so yes a pitch card would be required. PCM81 has the pitch algorithms built in. Yes it is possible to create a shimmer reverb with either PCM80 + pitch card or PCM81. You'd first decide which "flavor" of reverb you want. Then use one of the pitch algorithms. I'd probably lean towards STEREO-CHMB. Then you would need to set your PCM8x up on your mixer on an aux send so you can send audio to it AND also send a little bit of it's return channel back to the same aux send to create the feedback loop required to stimulate the shimmer. Careful not to dial in too much self-feedback or you'll blow out your eardrums.
Once you set up the basics you can then go to town on what the PCM8x does best - variety over time and dynamic response. You could set up a +1200 pitch shift on one side and +500 on the other. You could have them offset panning to create a rising spiral effect - the auditory equivalent of Watson & Crick's DNA model. You could set up an input dynamic response so that you get a +500 shift when picking hard or +1200 when picking light. Some of the algorithms have diffusion and EkoDelay - go wild!
Short answer: yes, with the Pitch Card or the 81!
Both of those, I made with this algorithm (Quad>Hall):
Long answer, tomorrow! (though @jaykay73 already covered a lot of it )
Looking forward to the long answer
IMHO you don't need to go into external mixer feedback loops with the PCM80/81 to get shimmer-like effects; its algorithms have all the internal routing options available to make it work "in the box".
Ah, so there's no internal routing to allow reverb algorithms to feedback on themselves. Thought maybe I was overlooking something in the algorithm diagrams.
I was thinking there ought to be but wasn't sure if required an 81 with dual-fx card maybe
Actually no! It's just the pitch/delay lines that do. It sounds kinda like that when it's "dissolved" into the reverb (especially in series w/reverb at 100% wet, something I'm pretty sure I did here with those clips). To get the reverb into the feedback path though, you'd have to get something like an Ensoniq DP-Pro or an MPX-1/G2 (and I would put more hope in the former than the latter, I tried the latter and it didn't turn out as well as I'd hoped on the MPX-1....might be a bit better on the MPX-G2 though, as the extra DSP "juice" lets you do a bit more with true stereo feedback paths).
That's the term that I like to use for it too: "shimmer-like" The actual "shimmer" effect that Eno, Lanois, et al pioneered is a bit more "unstable" to work with, and needs a lot more fine-tuning of all the variables involved to keep the huge "feedback soup" from turning into an ugly mess. With the PCM, things are a bit more separated, but that also keeps things a bit easier on the pitch shifter/delays. When they only have to shift themselves and each other on each feedback pass, you really do get a "cleaner" sound with well-defined, stable pitches.
Most of this "shimmer-like" stuff I've done involves using pitch shifter/delays before the reverb in series + setting the reverb for 100% wet (the 'FX' block I play with sometimes—50/50 if I want some dry sound to reach the reverb, 100% if I want just pitch-shifted reverb). That's how Quad>Hall is inherently set up, and that's how I usually set up the Dual-Plate & Dual-Chamber algorithms too (I don't usually use Dual-Inv, because I like having those extra EkoDelays the Chamber/Plate shells provide). It is possible to do Reverb>Pitch/Delay on Dual-Plate & Dual-Chamber, but I haven't experimented with that much yet, mostly 'cause I know it will be harder for the shifters to work with a whole reverb signal (I seem to remember doing this once back when I first got the Pitch Card, and not liking how it sounded nearly as much as the other way, but I've learned a lot more since then, so maybe it's time to give it a second shot ).
It's crazy to think of how much more could have happened here if Lexicon had just enabled the second block to feed back into the first one, like they did in the 300! With some aux sends on a mixer though, you can definitely go crazy with this and make "true" shimmer if you want
Dual-Chamber! Stereo-Chamber does still have the EkoDelays and all that, but the pitch shifters are ganged to the same settings, so you can't do the +1200/+500 stuff.
I actually always use Dual-Chamber for anything like this, even when I'm doing a "single" pitch shift—reason being, I can still, program little offsets in the pitch shifters that widen the stereo image (+703 & +697 for a +5th), or even have LFOs sweeping the cents +/- from a central point, sort of like a modulated delay. The PCM shifters are actually good enough to tolerate this in the feedback path too. As long as you don't stray too far from the "central" value (+/- 5 cents is pretty "safe"), you can easily get a great sound, with say, having a Sine sweeping between those +703 & +697 values with the feedback on (and in Dual-Chamber, I would either attach that same Sine to the other line for +697 to +703 [180º offset] or do a Cosine with the same values for a 90º offset). It actually adds a nice texture to it, you get some kind of musical-sounding artifact in there that's not present when you have a static value (I can't remember the Splice/Low Note settings I used for this, but it wasn't hard to zero in on the "sweet spot"), not "glitchy" at all.
It's been a long time, but I think one of my Soundcloud clips does a +1200 cascade on one side and +700 on the other. It doesn't do the panning, but that would be very neat to try, especially if the panning rate is tied into something else (like delay time/BPM). I do remember trying this back in the day and it was nice, but I was using "uncorrelated" rates for the surround panner. Tying them all together with BPM could really make for some nice "helical" FX
From memory I thought the other Pitch algos (which are a combination of Pitch effects & a reverb and are using the internal mixer block) could allow to build feedback paths as wanted between the pitch & reverb blocks, but I've just realized I may be wrong on that.
Anyway, still lots of nice "shimmer type" sounds to be had with the PCM alone
I actually like to use the Resonant based algos to create similar background pad textures.