Lexicon PCM80 & PCM81 Questions, Tips, Tricks & Solutions

burkinofaso

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350
Thanks for the explanation, Todd. I'll give it a go!

PS I take the term Francophile to mean someone who is very friendly toward France or French culture...just to clarify any potential misunderstanding about anyone's nationality being involved!:)
 
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ctreitzell

Member
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4,726
Thanks for the explanation, Todd. I'll give it a go!

PS I take the term Francophile to mean someone who is very friendly toward France or French culture...just to clarify any potential misunderstanding about anyone's nationality being involved!:)
ah, ok :)
Let the bromance flourish ;-P
 

burkinofaso

Member
Messages
350
I wondered if anyone could help me with creating a ducking delay and/or reverb?

I think that it should be a case of patching the Mod:AR Envelope (source) to a suitable parameter with a level reduction (destination).

I'm not sure what the best algorithms, parameters, and values are to achieve this effect. I tend to use it on leads using distorted sounds mainly.

Thanks for any advice.
 

ba_hill

Member
Messages
90
I wondered if anyone could help me with creating a ducking delay and/or reverb?

I think that it should be a case of patching the Mod:AR Envelope (source) to a suitable parameter with a level reduction (destination).

I'm not sure what the best algorithms, parameters, and values are to achieve this effect. I tend to use it on leads using distorted sounds mainly.

Thanks for any advice.
I have a simple ducking delay set up using the plate algorithm with reverb set to 0% and Env L modulating Voice1 level of the delay.
 

burkinofaso

Member
Messages
350
@ba_hill

Thanks for your good suggestion, I'll give that a try.

I think the best solutions must vary to some extent with the selected algorithm but there will be at least some similarities.
 

swinginguitar

Member
Messages
1,058
Question about mod/patching:

The sources allow LFO, as well as separately listing out various shapes (sine,cosine, square, etc)

The LFO is obviously editable from the previous row (shape, rate, duty cycle, etc), but where can the specific shapes as listed in the patch sources be edited for rate, depth, etc?

For example, if i assign LFO to a delay pan then edit the LFO, i get what i expect, but if i assign "square" or "triangle" to the same, i get nothing.

How would that be implemented?
 

ctreitzell

Member
Messages
4,726
Question about mod/patching:

The sources allow LFO, as well as separately listing out various shapes (sine,cosine, square, etc)

The LFO is obviously editable from the previous row (shape, rate, duty cycle, etc), but where can the specific shapes as listed in the patch sources be edited for rate, depth, etc?

For example, if i assign LFO to a delay pan then edit the LFO, i get what i expect, but if i assign "square" or "triangle" to the same, i get nothing.

How would that be implemented?
You patch them!

Mod row parameters are global SysEx IDs…I already have a functioning remote control layout for those built into a Midi Designer Pro 2 layout for iPad…it isn’t done, but it does work

Do you need to press * to cycle through the hidden sub menus?

Patching, on the other hand is a big challenge..,you gotta do that via front panel

EDIT...30 min later I checked on my PCM80...yeah, press the Load/* button to select the LFO shape you want

This manual is a PITA in my opinion...and although Lexicon does say Load/* button often, it isn't clear until you actually jump through the hoops...many a sub-menu hidden in there!
 
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pangea2003

Member
Messages
275
So, Really, first port of call is knowing how many ticks per parameter because they are somewhat consistent. Delay Times won't be and some ranges will be different from algo to algo.

master depth parameter for the chorus.
-doesn't apply to M-Band+Rb
-201 ticks for Master Chorus Depth and Rate percentage
-chorus is kind of easy because the parameter only appears on the algos with chorus

the master delay time for the delays
-201 ticks for Master Delay Time percentage
Delay Master is a challenge because every algo has it;
the smart thing is the Master percentage capability. The hardest thing on PCM8x is Delay per voice time; there are thousands of ticks.

output LVL
Output Level for what? "Audio Output Level" is not controllable ia SysEx and has two positions: -10dB and +4dB
I suppose you want the CONTROL Row in the Edit section for this. FX Mix or one of these controls. They really should hae made these global...oh well
you could also do this in the SubMixer if you using that.
Depends on how you have it set up; serial FX thru Rvb or Rb thru FX are probably somewhat trickier to set up

input LVL
-InLvl has 161 ticks

Toggle Delay ON/ Rvb OFF
Toggle Delay OFF/ Rvb ON
-maybe use FX Adjust for this? 81 Ticks for FX Adjust
-this depends on how you have it set up; again, serial FX might be tricky

Let's start with CHO+RVB then branch out to others.

So for CHO+RVB the Chorus Master Depth ID is:
F0 06 07 7F 0B 01 21 00 V1 V2 V3 00 F7
byte 7 is the parameter target. Now you need values.

OK, before working on values, you need to understand that the valuse are not serial!
Every 16 General MIDI values, the numbers jump 113 steps. This is the design of the LSB first scheme that Lexicon used for the SysEx. Also, realize that SysEx is more the machine language (actually bianary is, but let's not get into that); General MIDI numbers are a human readable translation.

Now, really, the easist way to the SysEx value you want is with the PCM8x encoder feeding a MIDI Listener program. That's how I go my data into my documents. The time when this gets tedious is when you have 1000s or 10,000+ ticks...really, anything over 300 ticks because you can find yourself spinning the encoder for long, long periods.

OK, back to the example for Chorus Master Depth:
F0 06 07 7F 0B 01 21 00 00 00 00 00 F7 = 0%
F0 06 07 7F 0B 01 21 00 00 02 03 00 F7 = 50%
F0 06 07 7F 0B 01 21 00 00 04 06 00 F7 = 100%
F0 06 07 7F 0B 01 21 00 00 06 09 00 F7 = 150%
F0 06 07 7F 0B 01 21 00 00 08 0C 00 F7 = 200%

Now, before we go after every tick Value, we can apply this to the Delay Time Master and Chorus Master Rate by simply changing the parameter ID in byte 7. The complication is, we have to ensure it is the correct ID for whatever Algo we want to control...otherwise we might be controlling some other parameter.

So for CHO+RVB the Delay Time Master ID is 17
apply it to the message above and we get:
F0 06 07 7F 0B 01 17 00 00 00 00 00 F7 = 0%
F0 06 07 7F 0B 01 17 00 00 02 03 00 F7 = 50%
F0 06 07 7F 0B 01 17 00 00 04 06 00 F7 = 100%
F0 06 07 7F 0B 01 17 00 00 06 09 00 F7 = 150%
F0 06 07 7F 0B 01 17 00 00 08 0C 00 F7 = 200%

see how you get on with this and I'll cover some of the other stuff later :)

I mean, really, I should make the remote!

Thanks so much for posting all this info Todd.
It's really useful!!
 

burkinofaso

Member
Messages
350
I'm trying to work out how to perform custom mapping to create pgm numbers so that I don't have to use Bank Select + PC messages to navigate to presets from my controller

I know that @MarcoR, post number 678, mentioned this but I cannot see how one maps a PGM number to a preset number and bank.

Could someone explain how this can be done? The manual is not very forthcoming at this point.
 

ctreitzell

Member
Messages
4,726
I'm trying to work out how to perform custom mapping to create pgm numbers so that I don't have to use Bank Select + PC messages to navigate to presets from my controller

I know that @MarcoR, post number 678, mentioned this but I cannot see how one maps a PGM number to a preset number and bank.

Could someone explain how this can be done? The manual is not very forthcoming at this point.
So you want to recall PROGRAMs? The problem with PROGRAMs is they are Read Only. If you make parameter changes to a PROGRAM, the load another PROGRAM they always load to the factory settings. If you want to save user changes to a factory preset PROGRAM; then you have to save it to a REGISTER location. REGISTERs allow users to save changes.

I've never set up any mapping before, tho...so I can't really help with that
 

burkinofaso

Member
Messages
350
Thanks Todd. I've managed to work out saving to the register or my SD card but I do appreciate your response.

I'm specifically thinking about the mapping of bank/preset locations to program change #.
 

burkinofaso

Member
Messages
350
Hi Todd
I'm getting good results with the Sysex coding/tuition you've provided but I wondered how one worked out intermediate values?

For example, how would I work out the Sysex code for a 60% value of chorus master depth? Thanks in advance for any help.

EDIT: is this where the listening comes in? I have the trial version of BOME Midi Translator which I think can read messages from devices...
 

BenniD

Member
Messages
17
Thanks Todd. I've managed to work out saving to the register or my SD card but I do appreciate your response.

I'm specifically thinking about the mapping of bank/preset locations to program change #.
Hey Husker, how are you saving to an SD card? Is there some sort of an adapter you can use? Sounds interesting...
 

burkinofaso

Member
Messages
350
@BenniD - I'm very sorry but I typed the wrong card details... It is a PCMCIA card.

My apologies!:red

I've edited my previous post to correct my mistake.

An SD card would be a much easier!
 

BenniD

Member
Messages
17
@BenniD - I'm very sorry but I typed the wrong card details... It is a PCMCIA card.

My apologies!:red

I've edited my previous post to correct my mistake.

An SD card would be a much easier!
haha no worries! was curious if that was a thing that was possible! Would you be able to point me in the direction of a PMCIA card to use for storage though? Might pick one up if they are easy to get and not silly money! Know nothing about them other than they also come in the Lexicon algo expansion format, and those seem to be selling for more than I paid for my PCM80 :rolleyes: cheers!
 

AnalogKid85

Member
Messages
1,385
Question about mod/patching:

The sources allow LFO, as well as separately listing out various shapes (sine,cosine, square, etc)

The LFO is obviously editable from the previous row (shape, rate, duty cycle, etc), but where can the specific shapes as listed in the patch sources be edited for rate, depth, etc?
Short version (for now—there is one area of uncertainty here with Pulse Width, that maybe some others can help out with):
  • the LFO modifier is sort of the "master LFO"
  • whatever Rate you set for LFO, becomes the Rate for all of the other individual waveform modifiers as well (Sine, Cosine, Square, Triangle, Sawtooth, & Pulse)
  • LFO is basically a more flexible, editable version of these, where it can take on any of the other shapes and have additional powers, like Pulse Width, Depth, etc. (picture the individual waveform sources being like characters in Mortal Kombat, but "LFO" is Shang Tsung :rotflmaosomething like that)
  • whenever you dial in a Depth, Pulse Width, etc. for LFO, these will not apply to the individual Sine / Cosine / Square / etc. modifiers; they will only come into play if you use LFO as a source, with Pulse Width being one possible exception (I believe that that does affect the individual Pulse modifier—otherwise it'd just be another Square, or maybe a reverse Square—though I'd have to check)
Sine, Cosine, Square, Triangle, & Sawtooth are all "generic" shapes that can't be changed with an "easy" edit like you get with LFO; however,you can still effectively change "Depth" for any of these waveform shapes by manipulating the pivot point values in the patching process (here, the "min" & "max" values, at 000 & 127, per the patching system).​
It may be helpful to compare adjusting Depth with "LFO" [set for Triangle] vs. "Triangle," to illustrate the difference. With LFO, you would first set it up like this:​
Source: LFO [set for Triangle, Rate = .50Hz, Depth = 100%] (Pulse Width won't affect this shape)
Destination: Voice 1 Delay Time
000: 7ms
127: 15ms
From there, if you wanted to change Depth to 50%, it would then sweep between 7ms and 11ms instead (cutting that original 8ms sweep in half).​
Now, if you wanted to use the Triangle modifier instead, and you wanted to cut the sweep down by half there as well, all you'd have to do is plug it in manually:​
Source: Triangle [and you'd go back to LFO—even if it was not being used directly—and set the Rate for .50Hz there]
Destination: Voice 1 Delay Time
000: 7ms
127: 11ms
There are some tradeoffs involved here, but I find myself doing this a lot, especially when building choruses that use a variety of waveforms (like the "Wave Chorus" in the Boss SE-70—something this unit can get very close to).​
For example, if i assign LFO to a delay pan then edit the LFO, i get what i expect, but if i assign "square" or "triangle" to the same, i get nothing.

How would that be implemented?

As long as you filled out the 000 & 127 "min/max" part properly—and the LFO Rate isn't set for something really slow, you should get something noticeable right away....when you say "nothing" though, do you mean that you're hearing no change, or it's just not matching what happens when LFO is the source?

EDIT: By the way, I want to add that there are still ways to edit the waveforms of Sine, Cosine, Sawtooth, etc., but it involves some more advanced pivot point techniques. I have worked out ways to do a lot of "extra" stuff though, including building a Halfsine waveform & coordinating LFO phase offsets beyond the normal 0-90-270 "quadrature" stuff (for example, 0-120-240, which is great for making a Yamaha Symphonic chorus emulation, or Tri-Avatar Chorus, etc.)....it does get highly specific to each waveform shape though. Sawtooth I find to be the most powerful waveform as far as pivot-point manipulation goes (since there is a 1-to-1 correspondence between the 000-127 values & unique points for all those along the entire waveform)....it will never be as flexible as an H3000 for getting ALL the waves, but you can definitely do a lot :D
 
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ctreitzell

Member
Messages
4,726
Hi Todd
I'm getting good results with the Sysex coding/tuition you've provided but I wondered how one worked out intermediate values?

For example, how would I work out the Sysex code for a 60% value of chorus master depth? Thanks in advance for any help.

EDIT: is this where the listening comes in? I have the trial version of BOME Midi Translator which I think can read messages from devices...
That's great to hear. Yes on the MIDI listener. PCM8x (and 9x I reckon) sends the ADJUST value for every tick and is very easy to see with a listener. It will give show the entire SysEx message. Realize, tho, that both PCM80 and 81 send values of PCM80 for backwards compatibility.

If you feel confident, I can just send you my documents :)
It might take a while to get to grips with, but will save a lot of encoder spinning.
 

ctreitzell

Member
Messages
4,726
haha no worries! was curious if that was a thing that was possible! Would you be able to point me in the direction of a PMCIA card to use for storage though? Might pick one up if they are easy to get and not silly money! Know nothing about them other than they also come in the Lexicon algo expansion format, and those seem to be selling for more than I paid for my PCM80 :rolleyes: cheers!
there is a fair bit of discussion about PCMCIA cards for PCM8X in this thread. AFAIAA blank cards are quite difficult to source nowadays. And, yeah, yo! The Lexicon expansion PCMCIA cards are very, very expensive. I got lucky when I bought my 81 with a DualFX card in it.
 




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