Line 6 Powercab: tweeter volume

The Whale

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
754
Hey gang: Ive been gigging a helix for years now and only recently got into the powercab. Overall I’m happy with the volume, headroom, and running two of the Pluses in stereo or wet/dry is wicked fun. The best sounds I’ve gotten are either from the internal speaker models or from LiveSoundReady’s powercab pack of IRs. I loaded those directly into the powercab.

Today, I found that playing at rehearsal volume got fatiguing, particularly on the high end. On a lark, I lowered the tweeter volume to -15. This definitely sounded muffled with all of my presets. So, I started raising the tweeter volume until it felt and sounded natural: -6. I was very surprised so I brought the tweeter back up to 0 and it was just papery. So, back to -6 she went. This is with the LSR Creamback 65 PC5 IR.

Anyone else do this with their powercabs? I’m curious what your best practices are.
 

rd2rk

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
1,735
Hey gang: Ive been gigging a helix for years now and only recently got into the powercab. Overall I’m happy with the volume, headroom, and running two of the Pluses in stereo or wet/dry is wicked fun. The best sounds I’ve gotten are either from the internal speaker models or from LiveSoundReady’s powercab pack of IRs. I loaded those directly into the powercab.

Today, I found that playing at rehearsal volume got fatiguing, particularly on the high end. On a lark, I lowered the tweeter volume to -15. This definitely sounded muffled with all of my presets. So, I started raising the tweeter volume until it felt and sounded natural: -6. I was very surprised so I brought the tweeter back up to 0 and it was just papery. So, back to -6 she went. This is with the LSR Creamback 65 PC5 IR.

Anyone else do this with their powercabs? I’m curious what your best practices are.

If you create your presets with the tweeter at 0db then turn it down just a bit to take the edge off, that can sound great, as you've discovered. And you can use Instant Commands in Command Center to custom tune it for each preset (CC#5, 113 = 0db).

OTOH, if you just turn it off to start with (CC#5 Value 0 to KNOW that it's actually OFF - it's a bug, discussed in other threads) and use LF Flat (LF Driver with Flat EQ) or LF Raw (the raw eminence speaker, no EQ) and create your presets starting there it will also sound great - best AITR tone IMO. Personally, I find that using LF Flat is perfect for the IRs I use (YA mostly). The coaxial HF driver seemed like a great idea when I bought my PC, but I've grown to hate it. The RAW speaker is preferred by some and can sound fine with clean/eob tones even by itself (no IR) but for heavier stuff LF Flat and good IRs does it for me.
 

The Whale

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
754
Hmm! Intriguing. You don’t find your presets to be muffled without the tweeter? Are you loading the IRs on your powercab or keeping them on your helix?



If you create your presets with the tweeter at 0db then turn it down just a bit to take the edge off, that can sound great, as you've discovered. And you can use Instant Commands in Command Center to custom tune it for each preset (CC#5, 113 = 0db).

OTOH, if you just turn it off to start with (CC#5 Value 0 to KNOW that it's actually OFF - it's a bug, discussed in other threads) and use LF Flat (LF Driver with Flat EQ) or LF Raw (the raw eminence speaker, no EQ) and create your presets starting there it will also sound great - best AITR tone IMO. Personally, I find that using LF Flat is perfect for the IRs I use (YA mostly). The coaxial HF driver seemed like a great idea when I bought my PC, but I've grown to hate it. The RAW speaker is preferred by some and can sound fine with clean/eob tones even by itself (no IR) but for heavier stuff LF Flat and good IRs does it for me.
 

Holdsworthx

Member
Messages
56
I go -3 to -6 db when using IR’s but I just don’t gel with IR’s. But with no cut, the tone is just too crispy.
 

The Whale

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
754
Do you wind up using the internal speaker models? I’ve been reading a bunch about the LF flat mode and might give that a try too. Overall Im fine with the tweeter…it’s just papery at gig volume. Just don’t want it all muffled and stuff. Might have to try that too

I go -3 to -6 db when using IR’s but I just don’t gel with IR’s. But with no cut, the tone is just too crispy.
 

rd2rk

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
1,735
Hmm! Intriguing. You don’t find your presets to be muffled without the tweeter? Are you loading the IRs on your powercab or keeping them on your helix?

Note the first line of my post. If you CREATE the preset WITHOUT the tweeter engaged, you'll eq it to sound good without it as a matter of course. It's a lot easier to do it that way than to reverse engineer all of your existing presets.

How do you turn down the tweeter on the Powercab?

Press home button for a couple of seconds to get into whatever mode that is, then scroll down to HF trim and then start trimming the hell out of it. Don’t forget to press save!

To customize the tweeter level (HF Trim) for individual presets (vs glabally as @Holdsworthx described) in CommandCenter, set an Instant Command to CC#5. A Value of 0 = OFF; Value of 113 = 0db (default).
 

Holdsworthx

Member
Messages
56
Do you wind up using the internal speaker models? I’ve been reading a bunch about the LF flat mode and might give that a try too. Overall Im fine with the tweeter…it’s just papery at gig volume. Just don’t want it all muffled and stuff. Might have to try that too
I pretty much exclusively use speaker models, but I’m actually in the process of dumping it and going to the much beloved Catalyst. I’m just looking to simplify things. Sometimes less is more.
 

General_Specific

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
2,955
Note the first line of my post. If you CREATE the preset WITHOUT the tweeter engaged, you'll eq it to sound good without it as a matter of course. It's a lot easier to do it that way than to reverse engineer all of your existing presets.





To customize the tweeter level (HF Trim) for individual presets (vs glabally as @Holdsworthx described) in CommandCenter, set an Instant Command to CC#5. A Value of 0 = OFF; Value of 113 = 0db (default).

Does the HF trim just affect the tweeter, or does it also trim highs from the main speaker?
 

spikey

Member
Messages
1,769
Now I'm just asking so no one gets their panties in a wad, but why didn't L6 fix this "over-crispness" issue on the PC+ yet? For them, a few settings in the software, and you're done. I mean I get it and I'm glad you can dial it (the high-end) up or down (I own two of these) but why would this even be needed "after" opening the box? If you always had to dial (the high-end tweeter) down to get a decent tone that should have been noticeable in the QA dept before it shipped. Sigh, it won't be fixed now cause there's a new kid in town- Catalyst. Over Critical? Perhaps. :)
 

phil_m

Trying is the first step towards failure.
Gold Supporting Member
Messages
14,462
Now I'm just asking so no one gets their panties in a wad, but why didn't L6 fix this "over-crispness" issue on the PC+ yet? For them, a few settings in the software, and you're done. I mean I get it and I'm glad you can dial it (the high-end) up or down (I own two of these) but why would this even be needed "after" opening the box? If you always had to dial (the high-end tweeter) down to get a decent tone that should have been noticeable in the QA dept before it shipped. Sigh, it won't be fixed now cause there's a new kid in town- Catalyst. Over Critical? Perhaps. :)
A lot of these are only issues to people who, well, have issues with them (how’s that for a tautology). I use my Powercab with L6 Link, and have no problems. I finally put it up on stand so it more accessible to my work station and I can hear it better, and I’ve been blown away by it the last few days. Once again, if I went be everything I read online, I’d be left with a different impression.

I’d also point out that a few years ago at NAMM, the Powercabs were the main source of amplification on stage for Line 6’s Helix and POD Go demos. I don’t get the impression that they see it as some failed product line with all sorts of bugs. Many times, they’re not aware of bugs because people don’t report them. They talk about on forums, and the developers generally aren’t reading those posts. Believe it or not, these are all busy people who oversee multiple products in different levels of development. So they just don’t have the bandwidth to track all these things. If people experience bugs, they need to submit a support ticket.
 

rd2rk

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
1,735
A lot of these are only issues to people who, well, have issues with them (how’s that for a tautology). I use my Powercab with L6 Link, and have no problems. I finally put it up on stand so it more accessible to my work station and I can hear it better, and I’ve been blown away by it the last few days. Once again, if I went be everything I read online, I’d be left with a different impression.

I’d also point out that a few years ago at NAMM, the Powercabs were the main source of amplification on stage for Line 6’s Helix and POD Go demos. I don’t get the impression that they see it as some failed product line with all sorts of bugs. Many times, they’re not aware of bugs because people don’t report them. They talk about on forums, and the developers generally aren’t reading those posts. Believe it or not, these are all busy people who oversee multiple products in different levels of development. So they just don’t have the bandwidth to track all these things. If people experience bugs, they need to submit a support ticket.

I'm happy for you that yours just works for you. Many of us haven't had that experience. We have issues. So, what, we're defective? We're imagining it? You've missed the posts by myself and others who've done extensive testing? And we've been reporting those issues by way of calls and support tickets for years. "We're too busy to hear you" is not a valid excuse for neglect. Those really busy people are on here almost daily addressing Helix issues, how about a little love for us Powercab owners?
 

phil_m

Trying is the first step towards failure.
Gold Supporting Member
Messages
14,462
I'm happy for you that yours just works for you. Many of us haven't had that experience. We have issues. So, what, we're defective? We're imagining it? You've missed the posts by myself and others who've done extensive testing? And we've been reporting those issues by way of calls and support tickets for years. "We're too busy to hear you" is not a valid excuse for neglect. Those really busy people are on here almost daily addressing Helix issues, how about a little love for us Powercab owners?
What did the responses to your support tickets say?

The people responding on the Helix threads aren’t the ones who are responsible for the Powercabs. But I know Rick said he’s looking into it.
 

rd2rk

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
1,735
What did the responses to your support tickets say?

The people responding on the Helix threads aren’t the ones who are responsible for the Powercabs. But I know Rick said he’s looking into it.

Variations on "we're passing it on to the engineering folks". Followed by silence.
 

spikey

Member
Messages
1,769
The people responding on the Helix threads aren’t the ones who are responsible for the Powercabs. But I know Rick said he’s looking into it.

I do hope that you or "Rick" will report back here if they find anything or not. But that "new kid in town" remark I made is very real, and you know that Phil. I've watched that play out for decades and It has nothing to do with what's said or not on the net.
 

phil_m

Trying is the first step towards failure.
Gold Supporting Member
Messages
14,462
I do hope that you or "Rick" will report back here if they find anything or not. But the "new kid in town" remark I made is very real, and you know that Phil.
Well, I don’t think the two products have much to do with each other, really. I don’t think the Catalyst is preventing bugs on the Powercab from being addressed. I think it probably has more to do with the number of reports they get, the repeatability and overall severity of them.
 

spikey

Member
Messages
1,769
Nothing is preventing any dev at L6 from doing anything, they just tend to not update the older stuff much when a new version of the same salad dressing arrives... ;)
 

phil_m

Trying is the first step towards failure.
Gold Supporting Member
Messages
14,462
Nothing is preventing any dev at L6 from doing anything, they just tend to not update the older stuff much when a new version of the same salad dressing arrives... ;)
They’re not the same sort of product at all, though…
 




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