Line6 Helix

[Dan Desy]

Next saturday I'll play my first tube free gig with helix.
I've decided not to go the 4cm with my tube head and bring only the ss power amp I use for band practice.

It will also be the first gig with the current lineup.

Good luck !

 

[Phnurt]

Interesting, I use a Shure wireless that allows you to change the impedance. Can I manually set the Helix to be the same as what I set the Shure Wireless?

As much as I've been able to figure out with my rig, if you're not loading the pickups physically then you get no advantage from Helix ANALOGUE inputs. (no impedance control)

If your wireless system has a built-in impedance simulator that would fix it. I use a Radial Dragster when I'm playing with the G-10. Totally adjustable on-the-fly and loads the pickups pre-wireless. It hangs off my guitar like a 10 inch dongle but I've gotten used to it. I'm sure there are alternatives out there but the Radial unit is passive requiring no external power and just works.

All that being said, I prefer the tone from a high-quality guitar lead. And Helix's awesome input section just adds all kinds of tone sculpting goodness.

 

[jaded_musician]

As much as I've been able to figure out with my rig, if you're not loading the pickups physically then you get no advantage from Helix ANALOGUE inputs. (no impedance control)

If your wireless system has a built-in impedance simulator that would fix it. I use a Radial Dragster when I'm playing with the G-10. Totally adjustable on-the-fly and loads the pickups pre-wireless. It hangs off my guitar like a 10 inch dongle but I've gotten used to it. I'm sure there are alternatives out there but the Radial unit is passive requiring no external power and just works.

All that being said, I prefer the tone from a high-quality guitar lead. And Helix's awesome input section just adds all kinds of tone sculpting goodness.

Since I always use my wireless I’m going to stop worrying about impedance and leave it set for 1 M ohm

 

[Kylotan]

What kind of pickups are you using?

Either EMG 81 (pretty hot) or Epiphone stock pickups (less so).

When I test in Helix Native, the guide says I should have input somewhere between -36dB and -18dB, and I am consistently in the middle of that range. Engaging the Vermin takes the level back below -36dB, so maybe it's no surprise that the rest of the blocks often sound bad as a result.

When I test with the Helix Floor and pipe the results through to a DAW to monitor the levels, I see something like a 15dB drop when I engage the Vermin, even with my Epiphone stock pickups.

I haven’t experienced this in real life or modelers, but I don’t use hot pickups. If putting an input pad in place solved the problem, it looks like you have your answer. The helix is modeling the behavior of the actual pedal which is consistent with the design methodology they’ve been using generally in the product. The fact that you see players with lower gain settings on real life pedals than what you need with the input pad probably just indicates that they aren’t using the kinds of pickups that you are. Is it possible to get good results without going as far as the 15db cut?

Lots of metal guitarists use EMG 81s like I do and they also use the Rat, so I don't think it's that. And no, I can't get anything usable without that 15dB cut, because the 2 input levels to the following amp blocks end up wildly different. An amp that is getting the sweet spot of crunch without the Rat engaged gets far too little with it on, so it comes out as a change of distortion rather than an extra distortion and boost as I would have expected.

 

[Dave Merrill]

I'm probably missing something obvious, but if the Rat lowers your volume, and you don't want to drive it harder, why not turn up its output? If you're commenting on the need to do that, well ok then, sorted.

 

[Blix]

Geez I can't get over that Badonk amp model. I've had this thing for like 1.5 years and I just disovered this model like a few days ago...

 

[JiveTurkey]

Geez I can't get over that Badonk amp model. I've had this thing for like 1.5 years and I just disovered this model like a few days ago...

I am telling you

 

[Kylotan]

I'm probably missing something obvious, but if the Rat lowers your volume, and you don't want to drive it harder, why not turn up its output? If you're commenting on the need to do that, well ok then, sorted.

It's a good question! One reason is that a lot of the real-life pedal boards already have the output pretty high as it is, so when I copy their settings there's not always much room to push it further, although there is a large difference in output as you approach the 10 mark, so it's not as bad as it seems.

 

[Axe_34]

I prefer the legacy Classic Distortion over the Vermin. It sounds much closer to the RATs I've owned.

 

[papersun]

classic distortion > vermin
facial fuzz > arbitrator

 

[Dave Merrill]

Someone left a Rat in a club I used to run house sound for. I waited a couple months, nobody came for it, so I took it home. Hated it.

I do occasionally use the one in Helix though, which I think is probably more about where I'm at and the gear I'm using it with than the pedal model itself.

 

[GeNCoDeR]

As much as I've been able to figure out with my rig, if you're not loading the pickups physically then you get no advantage from Helix ANALOGUE inputs. (no impedance control)

If your wireless system has a built-in impedance simulator that would fix it. I use a Radial Dragster when I'm playing with the G-10. Totally adjustable on-the-fly and loads the pickups pre-wireless. It hangs off my guitar like a 10 inch dongle but I've gotten used to it. I'm sure there are alternatives out there but the Radial unit is passive requiring no external power and just works.

All that being said, I prefer the tone from a high-quality guitar lead. And Helix's awesome input section just adds all kinds of tone sculpting goodness.

What about using active pickups?

 

[Lt_Core]

So I'm starting to dial-in my Helix LT for live use, mostly rock. Is there a huge advantage upgrading to 8" monitors over 5" monitors? Obviously low-end would be better.

 

[supremelutimatefist]

So I'm starting to dial-in my Helix LT for live use, mostly rock. Is there a huge advantage upgrading to 8" monitors over 5" monitors? Obviously low-end would be better.

If you're dialling in for live you need to be at full live volume, so no. (I have found the Fletcher Munson EQ block on customtone useful for getting a rough idea first at home though.)

 

[Tito83]

facial fuzz > arbitrator

Agree... But only if you set the impedance wrong .

 

[benadrian]

I'm trying to reduce that aspect by building my tones in Helix Native where everything comes in at the same level. I have no idea what it does regarding impedance in that situation.

Howdy!
Since you're using Helix native, my guess is that the guitar is hitting the plug-in at a higher level than it would hit the model if you were using actual Helix hardware. All the modeling was done to be voltage accurate with the A->D built into Helix. However, there is no real standard for level between a guitar level in and digital dBFS level. If there is, I'm not sure what it is. If I had my way I'd get my hands on the 25 most popular audio interfaces and publish gain compensation levels to match the analog guitar input to Helix's guitar input.

This is the reason that we have the input level on Helix native, and we have recommended input level reading in the manual. However, it's really hard to predict how humans will read level meters. However, this gave me an idea...

Load the Vermin model into a clean amp model... or even with no amp model.
Turn the drive and volume to max.
Play guitar and toggle the pedal on and off.
Adjust the Helix Native input level slider so there is a bit of a boost when the Vermin is on.

This is a VERY coarse adjustment, and it going to probably still be on the loud side, but at least it will be closer.

Good luck!

 

[Phnurt]

What about using active pickups?

I honestly don't know how active pickups respond to the input of an amp or pedal. I know actives tend to be hot. Anyone that can explain?

 

[Dan Desy]

Active pickups have lower impedance, and thus should be less subject to impedance issues. Less, but not totally absent of problems?

 

[Phnurt]

So I'm starting to dial-in my Helix LT for live use, mostly rock. Is there a huge advantage upgrading to 8" monitors over 5" monitors? Obviously low-end would be better.

It really comes down to your needs. If you're just rockin out for your own pleasure 5's would be fine. I have a pair of 8's at 70 watts each, but I'm also in a position where loud is not an issue.

Although I rarely play through my humble monitors in favor of the 1700 watt PA.

 

[Phnurt]

Active pickups have lower impedance, and thus should be less subject to impedance issues. Less, but not totally absent of problems?

I have to say impedance isn't a problem, it's a tool imo.