list the pedals that invert phase....................

Discussion in 'Effects, Pedals, Strings & Things' started by Tubbs, Oct 27, 2010.


  1. Tubbs

    Tubbs Member

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    in a parallel or stereo setup pedals that invert phase can be a real menace.
    (depending on which side of the camp you populate it may or may not be an issue in a mono setup/rig)

    either way, i thought it would be handy to list phase inverting pedals here as a reference.


    i'll update this list as people add to it.............


    note: i made a decision not to list pedals with wet/dry or stereo outs where the secondary output flips polarity while the primary output remains in phase.

    why?....that list would be too long.

    i WILL however list the pedals if the primary output flips polarity.




    <<<<<<(all pedals invert signal only when engaged unless noted in red, blue, pink, purple, orange, green, gray, aqua, maroon)>>>>>>


    boosts/overdrives/distortions/pre-amps:
    Analogman KOT (each channel inverts independently)
    Bad Bob Booster
    Badger Badgerplex Vintage Pre (The Badgerplex Plural does NOT invert)
    Boss DS-1
    Boss OD-1
    Catalinbread Super Chili Picoso
    Cmatmods Super Signa Drive (each channel inverts independently)
    Colorsound Overdriver/Power Boost (and clones of)
    Danelectro Daddy-O Overdrive
    Devi Ever Dark Boost
    Devi Ever Karaoke Party
    Electra Distortion
    Electro Harmonix LPB
    Fuchs Plush Pure Gain
    Fulltone Fat Boost1 (FatB2 and FatB3 do NOT invert)
    Henretta Engineering Choad Blaster
    Ibanez SML Super Metal
    Infanem STEP: (inversion depends on settings)
    - 0 up = inverted phase
    - 1+4 up = inverted phase
    - 1+3 up = inverted phase
    - 3+4 up = inverted phase
    - (octave switch 3 likely inverts)
    Kingsley Jester Overdrive/Boost (each channel inverts independently)
    Legendary Tones (pre-Keeley) Time Machine Boost: Vintage channel inverts when engaged regardless of '66 or '73 setting. (Modern channel does NOT invert)
    Lizard Legs Flying Dragon Boost
    Lovepedal Amp Eleven (each channel inverts independently)
    Lovepedal COT
    Lovepedal Les Lius
    Marshall Bluesbreaker OD
    Menatone Dirty Blonde (6 knob knob version)
    Menatone Fish Factory (each channel inverts independently)
    Menatone Foxy Brown (4 knob jacks on top battery on side version)
    Manatone Howie (6 knob version)
    Menatone Red Snapper (4 knob red box, jacks on top version)
    Menatone Shut Up And Drive
    MI Audio Boost n Buff v1 and v2 (always inverted. inverts engaged AND bypassed)
    MI Audio Tube Zone
    OceanFX Pearl Drive
    Seymour Duncan Twin Tube Classic (channel 1 inverted. channel 2 flips signal back to non-inverted when engaged)
    Smallsound/Bigsound F**k Overdrive
    Smallsound/Bigsound Mini
    Smallsound/Bigsound Sparkle Motion
    Skreddy Screw Driver
    Soulsonicfx Hunny Bunny OD
    Telenordia Treble Boost
    Xotic BB plus (each channel inverts independently)
    Xotic EP Booster
    Zvex Super Hard On (and clones of)

    ANY single transistor boost....


    (general):
    ANYTHING that has 1,3 (or any other odd number) inverting gain stage(s).....for example: Spencer Subzombie fuzz


    compressors:
    Earthquaker Devices The Warden Compressor
    Mad Professor Forest Green Compressor
    MXR Dynacomp
    Okko Coca Comp

    all Ross compressors,clones and variants invert: some examples.....
    Analogman Bi-comp (only one channel inverts) (Ross side of the Bi-Comp inverts. Orange Squeezer side does NOT invert) (REV4 with blue circuit board does NOT invert)
    Analogman CompRossor
    BYOC 5 knob compressor
    GoudieFX Compressor
    Keeley Compressor
    Retro-Sonic Compressor
    Wampler Ego Compressor (compression signal inverts. clean blend does NOT invert)

    delays:
    Biyang AD-10 (only dry signal inverted, repeats are non-inverted)
    Blackbox/Ooh La La Quicksilver
    Danelectro Dan Echo (always inverted. inverts engaged AND bypassed)
    Danelectro Fab Echo (always inverted. inverts engaged AND bypassed)
    DLS Echo-Tap
    DMB Lunar Echo
    Electro Harmonix Deluxe Memory Man
    Empress Super Delay / Vintage Modified
    Ibanez AD-80 (always inverted. inverts engaged AND bypassed)
    Lovepedal Echo Baby
    Seymour Duncan Deja Vu (when true bypass: inverts when engaged / when buffered bypass: always inverted. inverts engaged AND bypassed)
    SIB Blue Echodrive
    TC Electronic Nova Delay


    fuzz pedals:
    Blackout Effectors Musket Fuzz (from Kyle @ blackout: "5 inverting gain stages, which results in flipped polarity")
    Bluebird Fuzz
    Colorsound Tonebender (and clones of)
    Electronix MessDrive Hybrid
    Fender Blender
    Gretsch Controfuzz
    Infanem STEP: (inversion depends on settings)
    - 0 up = inverted phase
    - 1+4 up = inverted phase
    - 1+3 up = inverted phase
    - 3+4 up = inverted phase
    - (octave switch 3 likely inverts)
    Maestro Brassmaster / Malekko B:Assmaster
    MI Audio Pollyanna
    Mosrite Fuzz Rite (and clones of)
    Skreddy Lunar Module and Dlx
    Soulsonicfx Shizzle fuzz
    Spencer Mixmuff
    Spencer Subzombie (stage #1 and stage #3 invert)
    Spencer Suprazombie
    Zvex Fuzz Factory

    (general):
    most octave up fuzz's

    Infanem STEP: (see above) (inversion depends on settings)
    Fulltone Ultimate Octave

    looping pedals:
    Zvex Lo-Fi Loop Junky

    modulation pedals:
    chorus:
    Catalinbread Callisto Chorus (inverts phase when mix full dry, in phase when fully wet) (inversion depends on settings)
    MXR Micro Chorus
    TC Electronics Chorus

    flangers:
    MXR Micro Flanger
    Ross Flanger (ac powered)

    phasers:
    Blackout Effectors Whetstone Phaser
    MXR Phase 90 (original)
    Red Witch Moon Phase
    Subdecay Baby Quasar
    Subdecay Quasar DLX
    Subdecay Quasar Quantum

    tremolos:
    Amptweaker Swirlpool (inverts phase with the 'surf' switch set to the left ONLY) (inversion depends on settings)
    Danelectro Cool Cat Tremolo
    Danelectro Tuna Melt Tremolo (always inverted. inverts engaged AND bypassed)
    Effectrode Delta Trem Tremolo
    Toadworks Pipeline

    vibe pedals:
    Effectrode Tube Vibe
    Retroman Ubervibe (main output inverts, other output does not)

    vibrato pedals:
    Behringer UV300: inverts in "latch" and "unlatch" mode / does NOT invert in "bypass" mode (inverts in some modes but not in others)

    multi fx:
    Digitech RP-155 (always inverted. inverts engaged AND bypassed)


    noise reduction:
    Behringer NR300


    reverb:
    Zcat Stereo Big Reverb TI

    PEDALS THAT INVERT PURPOSEFULLY(to correct out of phase pedals etc.)

    - Barge Concepts VB-jr
    - Badger Schism
    - GigRig Humdinger
    - GigRig Wet Box
    - One Control Mesquite Blender

    any others?.........................................................................................................

    PLEASE TRY TO FORMAT YOUR ENTRIES EXACTLY AS I HAVE THEM HERE. THAT WAY I CAN SIMPLY COPY AND PASTE (PLUS IT KEEPS THE THREAD CLEAN AND EASY TO READ).
    THANK YOU! ;)

    (capitalization, brand then model, explanation if needed)
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2015
  2. Blakemore

    Blakemore Supporting Member

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    Deluxe Memory Man
    DMB Lunar Echo
    Empress Vintage Modified Delay.

    Those are the few i have noticed in my stereo rig.
     
  3. Tubbs

    Tubbs Member

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    oh yeah, i do remember having that problem with the Memory Man.

    haven't had that problem with the VMSD though. weird!
     
  4. Kelsey

    Kelsey Member

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    Bad Bob booster, EP Booster, and many other boosters. I guess Fulltone corrected the phase issue with the FB2 and FB3. As for the EP, but two-- they're small. Or put it in line before the split. I agree that it's a tricky business and would be worth knowing in advance if you're trying to put together a flexible ABY rig.
     
  5. Tubbs

    Tubbs Member

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    a question about the Lunar Echo......

    is the phase inversion a must in the circuit somehow, a conscious decision or........?
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2010
  6. Beam Tetrode

    Beam Tetrode Member

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  7. Tubbs

    Tubbs Member

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    yeah, it would be nice to get a heads up before purchasing a pedal.

    guess manufacturers don't want to advertise what to some prospective buyers would be a fatal flaw.

    then again, they might not even know.........
    i actually called Blackbox and the designer swore it WASN'T phase inverting.

    all i know is that when the Quicksilver's in my parallel loop (and only then) it thins out the sound/drops the volume until i flip the parallel loop phase inversion switch.
    that there's classic phase cancellation!

    i don't think he was being deceptive it just sounded like the issue never occurred to him
     
  8. Tubbs

    Tubbs Member

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    dude, good to know! thanks
     
  9. this1smyne

    this1smyne Member

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    really?!?! i don't think the SHO inverts....
     
  10. Beam Tetrode

    Beam Tetrode Member

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    It inverts.
     
  11. Tubbs

    Tubbs Member

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    just checked my VMSD and you're totally right!
     
  12. nrandall85

    nrandall85 Member

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    Sorry to ask this, but what exactly does it mean when your phase gets inverted? I'm running a bunch of pedals into vmsd>el cap>rrr>SHO, and in this thread it says the vmsd and sho invert phase. If I have two pedals that invert phase, does that mean my phase is no longer inverted? I'm lost.
     
  13. Musikerochan

    Musikerochan Member

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    LPB. SHO. COT. electra distortion. tonebenders. any single transistor booster would.
     
  14. nrandall85

    nrandall85 Member

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    I should be more specific, I know about dealing with phase issues when using two mics with recording- but how exactly do phase issues manifest when just using a guitar through effects into an amp?
     
  15. Cirrus

    Cirrus Member

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    Inverted phase (or more properly inverted POLARITY) means that where a signal would have went positive to negative, it now goes negative to positive. So imagine a picture of the signal and turn it upside down. A positive voltage on the input of a phase inverting pedal will result in a negative voltage at the output.

    Why does it matter? If you've got one signal chain going into one amp, it doesn't, because our ears are not sensitive to polarity: we'll hear the same sound either way.

    But if you split your signal into two or more different amps, it becomes a problem if one amp is getting a positive signal and the other a negative one - the two amps end up fighting each other and certain frequencies can be cancelled out. If they're close together you'll hear a reduction in bass, if they're far apart you'll get a strange, hollow sound. You might have heard it before if you've ever wired up a hi fi incorrectly.

    Hope that helps!

    I'll add one to the list - the danelectro daddy-o.
     
    James likes this.
  16. kimock

    kimock Member

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    Nah, you'll hear it with a single amp too because polarity affects the acoustical coupling of the guitar and the amp. Positive or negative feedback in the guitar/amp loop. You'll get sound either way, but in one polarity you'll be driving the response of the guitar up, in the opposite polarity you're damping it.
    It's easier to hear with single coils than humbuckers, but it's always in play.
    The guitar and amp are both sound sources, they will both sum or cancel depending on polarity. Just sayin'. .:D
     
  17. spentron

    spentron Member

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    Fab echo -- including bypass
    RP155 -- incl. bypass, not sure when engaged because the entire signal is delayed 1-2 ms as well, flipping phase has little effect. I expect most or all digital processors which digitize the entire signal, especially overachieving multieffects, are reduced in effectiveness in parallel rigs due to delay unless the delays are matched on each path... which is a shame, seems like it would be ideal.

    In stereo, phase reversals usually result in the sound seeming to come from nowhere (vs. good stereo doesn't sound like it's coming from the speakers either, but still from defined points in space), in special cases it can seem to come from way outside the spread of the speakers (why simulated surround often sounds "phasey" and hollow).

    The standard mix circuit where the input signals are isolated from each other is inverting, so some pedals that mix a signal back in such as echo invert, it's that or run through even more circuitry. They also may contain a high impedance buffer, but those don't invert.

    Inversion can improve stability of ultra-high gain distortion circuits. In my Subzombie, which plays with antiphase mixing, the highest gain stage (#3) inverts, #2 does not, but within the pedal stage 2 is considered the "anti" source because it is in the minority, slightly misleading anyway because both polarities are anti to each other.
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2010
  18. StompBoxBlues

    StompBoxBlues Member

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    Phase inversion (just to put it another way) is when it gets reversed from the input signal.

    So when the input signal is going from say in the positive swing of the "sinus" wave, the OUTPUT is going negative, and vice versa.

    The surest way to prove it is with an oscilloscope. You can put channel A on input, B on output and just plain see that when one goes one direction the other goes the other.

    Usually if you see a schematic, it is the number of stages it goes through that tells you. One stage it inverts, if it goes through two amplification stages it often inverts twice, which is seen as non-inverting (back where you started) on the output, i.e. is matches the input.

    I sure can see where it could play havoc with a parallel path...it isn't even (unless you always have both on at the same time) help if you have two inverting pedals right? (or is the inversion also present when in bypass?).
     
  19. RGB

    RGB Supporting Member

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    The DLS Echo-Tap reversed phase in my rig, but I could bring it back by turning on my TC Chorus, so I guess that one reverses too.

    Both are gone from my setup these days and I have an Axess BS-2 at the end of my pedal chain so I can reverse phase manually if needed when running the wet/dry rig.
     
  20. Cirrus

    Cirrus Member

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    I can't tell if you're joking or not, or even exactly what you mean, but I don't think you're right. Are you saying that the sound from the amp will positively or negatively reinforce the actual guitar vibrations? :dunno if so surely it just depends how far from the amp you are, and whether you're facing towards or away from it?

    I'd say at best you're confusing an issue that needn't be hard to understand.

    I stand by what I believe - Everything else being equal, the absolute polarity of a signal isn't something we can hear. The only time that gets confused is when you're listening on a system that distorts asymetrically - then there might be some difference in timbre, but then all else isn't equal. In the case of a single guitar amp where distortion is occuring at every turn, the polarity of the signal isn't going to be important.
     

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