Live Ready Sound - Powercab Jensen C12k IR test clip

Guitardave

Supporting Member
So I've been trying out a few different ways to use the Powercab and Tim @Dead-Pan from LRS offered to let me trial the Jensen C12k and some of his Powercab specific IRs. https://livereadysound.com/product/powercab-ir-pack/

I used his V30 IR at the last gig and it worked out great. But I was really excited to try this new Jensen C12k since it's the speaker I use in my #1 amp (Lil' Dawg Wonderdawg 50 watt) and it's just a familiar tonal thing to work with.

I'm running the Powercab in LF Flat mode which gives it a nice "amp in the room", it also sounds quite good in FRFR mode. Running the IR makes it easy because I can feed the PA via XLR and control it with the headphone knob, the Powercab is fed via the L6 link and is on the big Helix knob (with a KickDisk so I can adjust it with my foot).

For this test I wanted to see how things recorded - this is the feed that would go to the PA. There's no hi/lo cuts, no customization of anything on the Deluxe Normal amp model - in fact the only change to stock amp model settings was to pull the gain level down. I toggle on a Teemah (Timmy), Kinky Boost and somewhere later a Valve Driver. Reverb is the Legacy spring. Guitar is a partscaster strat I picked up for $400 on ebay last year...it's one of my main gig guitars because it plays and sounds great and I don't worry about it like my more expensive stuff.

Sorry if it's a bit boring but when it comes to hearing how things sound I find it way better to keep things simpler and let stuff ring out. I adjust some settings along the way as the spirit moves me. Later on there is a Valve Driver that I hadn't dialed in so you can hear me adjust it pretty quickly to something that works as well.

Hope you guys like it - I can get a bit nitpicky and will probably adjust things a bit more but overall it sounds pretty great for my tastes. I find it kind of pointless to tweak too much until I get to the gig - each room, stage and group of players requires some slight adjustments to "fit" things. I just get it generally in the range and save fine tuning for the actual gig. Usually it's just a quick tone stack tweak to fit the mix as needed.

Alright - here's the clip. First minute or so is cleans, but feel free to skip around. Again, not aiming for perfection - you can hear me working the tones out as I go along.

 
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Guitardave

Supporting Member
Nice work, Dave. I checked out the IR pack and that Celestion alnico cream has me intrigued.
They all seem to be really easy to work with...I like that one but the V30 was another standout for me. Really full - I should try it with a Mesa model. And the Hiwatt is also really nice. It's been a long while since I hit RECORD with the Helix. It's so cool how easy all this stuff is to use.
 

benifin

Member
So I've been trying out a few different ways to use the Powercab and Tim @Dead-Pan from LRS offered to let me trial the Jensen C12k and some of his Powercab specific IRs. https://livereadysound.com/product/powercab-ir-pack/

I used his V30 IR at the last gig and it worked out great. But I was really excited to try this new Jensen C12k since it's the speaker I use in my #1 amp (Lil' Dawg Wonderdawg 50 watt) and it's just a familiar tonal thing to work with.

I'm running the Powercab in LF Flat mode which gives it a nice "amp in the room", it also sounds quite good in FRFR mode. Running the IR makes it easy because I can feed the PA via XLR and control it with the headphone knob, the Powercab is fed via the L6 link and is on the big Helix knob (with a KickDisk so I can adjust it with my foot).

For this test I wanted to see how things recorded - this is the feed that would go to the PA. There's no hi/lo cuts, no customization of anything on the Deluxe Normal amp model - in fact the only change to stock amp model settings was to pull the gain level down. I toggle on a Teemah (Timmy), Kinky Boost and somewhere later a Valve Driver. Reverb is the Legacy spring. Guitar is a partscaster strat I picked up for $400 on ebay last year...it's one of my main gig guitars because it plays and sounds great and I don't worry about it like my more expensive stuff.

Sorry if it's a bit boring but when it comes to hearing how things sound I find it way better to keep things simpler and let stuff ring out. I adjust some settings along the way as the spirit moves me. Later on there is a Valve Driver that I hadn't dialed in so you can hear me adjust it pretty quickly to something that works as well.

Hope you guys like it - I can get a bit nitpicky and will probably adjust things a bit more but overall it sounds pretty great for my tastes. I find it kind of pointless to tweak too much until I get to the gig - each room, stage and group of players requires some slight adjustments to "fit" things. I just get it generally in the range and save fine tuning for the actual gig. Usually it's just a quick tone stack tweak to fit the mix as needed.

Alright - here's the clip. First minute or so is cleans, but feel free to skip around. Again, not aiming for perfection - you can hear me working the tones out as I go along.

Hey GD !

Im not a Fender-amp-tone-aficionado ....... DC30 is the reason I bought the Helix :) ....... but they were some really nice tones and noodling :)

Ben
 

Guitardave

Supporting Member
Hey GD !

Im not a Fender-amp-tone-aficionado ....... DC30 is the reason I bought the Helix :) ....... but they were some really nice tones and noodling :)

Ben
Thanks! This is what stock settings are giving me. I might brighten it up a bit more at the gig depending on the room but it's sounding and feeling great already.

I like the Helix Matchless a lot - what type of speakers do you match it up with?
 

drew365

Member
I'm assuming you loaded the IR into your Helix patch? His description says they are made to be loaded into the PC+, but if I try them I would probably load them into my Helix patch. I doubt they would sound any different.
 

Guitardave

Supporting Member
I'm assuming you loaded the IR into your Helix patch? His description says they are made to be loaded into the PC+, but if I try them I would probably load them into my Helix patch. I doubt they would sound any different.
Yep - it's on the Helix so I can feed the PA from the XLR. What I'm liking is the flexibility this gives me. Since the IR is obviously recording beautifully I know it'll sound great thru the PA as well. Feeding the Powercab with the same IR makes it so simple and leaves all the control at the Helix - including foot control of my Powercab volume.

I'm messing around with different options on the Powercab for using IRs but so far I seem to really like the LF Flat - and I'm discovering I may actually like the LF Raw even a bit more with certain IRs. There's just a certain quality to it that is really pleasing to my ears - I just have to use a bit of EQ to tweak it where I want it to end up.

So all I really need to do is add a Mesa EQ on the path that feeds the Powercab...that'll allow me to quickly add a little extra brightness back into the signal to compensate for the lack of the tweeter. But the "quality" of the tones I'm getting with the Helix/Powercab is really impressive especially since I've got a great boutique amp to compare it to.

For me, once I get the modeler in the same tonal response area as my amp then it'll sound great on the gig. Doing it this way allows me to really know how it's going to react in advance.
 
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drew365

Member
Curious, what do you think they would be doing different from other IR's, to gear these for the PC+?
 
Do they have a non-Powercab version of the Jensen C12k? Poked around and didn't see one, but there's no straight-up listing of what speakers are in what packs that I saw.
 

Dead-Pan

Member
So it looks like 8 IRs in total for $24.99, but it will get updates?
Hi Clint, the pack will see alot of updates. :)

Curious, what do you think they would be doing different from other IR's, to gear these for the PC+?
I know the question was for Dave but I will give a little insight. When doing Kemper profiles I will experiment consistently with mic placement to get the perfect profile (the Kemper tends to be picky.) Once I find that perfect placement I will also shoot an IR of it. The IR will then be processed to match the sound coming out of the real speaker in the room when using the Powercab + in frfr mode. What you end up with is a not just any ol' IR but a refined IR that just sounds great. And not just with the Powercab.

I know these are designed for use with the Powercab, but has anyone tried them with a standard FRFR cab? Or for recording?
There are a couple sound samples on soundcloud of the Redback and EVH in hard rock mixes. The same IRs have been well recieved with many different styles using amps such as Marshall, BE100, Mesa among others. The IRs are very new so I am sure we will see more clips soon.

Do they have a non-Powercab version of the Jensen C12k? Poked around and didn't see one, but there's no straight-up listing of what speakers are in what packs that I saw.
The C12K is only currently available in the Powercab pack. This IR can be used in any device though it may need converted as it is only provided in 48k 24bit to keep things less confusing. If anyone was to purchase and need it converted I would be glad to do it for them.
 

MatchFive

Silver Supporting Member
So I've been trying out a few different ways to use the Powercab and Tim @Dead-Pan from LRS offered to let me trial the Jensen C12k and some of his Powercab specific IRs. https://livereadysound.com/product/powercab-ir-pack/

I used his V30 IR at the last gig and it worked out great. But I was really excited to try this new Jensen C12k since it's the speaker I use in my #1 amp (Lil' Dawg Wonderdawg 50 watt) and it's just a familiar tonal thing to work with.

I'm running the Powercab in LF Flat mode which gives it a nice "amp in the room", it also sounds quite good in FRFR mode. Running the IR makes it easy because I can feed the PA via XLR and control it with the headphone knob, the Powercab is fed via the L6 link and is on the big Helix knob (with a KickDisk so I can adjust it with my foot).

For this test I wanted to see how things recorded - this is the feed that would go to the PA. There's no hi/lo cuts, no customization of anything on the Deluxe Normal amp model - in fact the only change to stock amp model settings was to pull the gain level down. I toggle on a Teemah (Timmy), Kinky Boost and somewhere later a Valve Driver. Reverb is the Legacy spring. Guitar is a partscaster strat I picked up for $400 on ebay last year...it's one of my main gig guitars because it plays and sounds great and I don't worry about it like my more expensive stuff.

Sorry if it's a bit boring but when it comes to hearing how things sound I find it way better to keep things simpler and let stuff ring out. I adjust some settings along the way as the spirit moves me. Later on there is a Valve Driver that I hadn't dialed in so you can hear me adjust it pretty quickly to something that works as well.

Hope you guys like it - I can get a bit nitpicky and will probably adjust things a bit more but overall it sounds pretty great for my tastes. I find it kind of pointless to tweak too much until I get to the gig - each room, stage and group of players requires some slight adjustments to "fit" things. I just get it generally in the range and save fine tuning for the actual gig. Usually it's just a quick tone stack tweak to fit the mix as needed.

Alright - here's the clip. First minute or so is cleans, but feel free to skip around. Again, not aiming for perfection - you can hear me working the tones out as I go along.

That sounds awesome man!
 

Guitardave

Supporting Member
I know these are designed for use with the Powercab, but has anyone tried them with a standard FRFR cab? Or for recording?
I've run them thru the PA as well (V30 IR so far) and it worked great as well.

This is the first recording I tried with these LRS IRs and I'm really pleased how good it sounds "on tape" so to speak. I was using headphones to monitor things. Next time I'm just going to monitor thru the Powercab and use the USB out from the Powercab to record. Keep in mind I want to host the IR on the Helix so I can feed the PA directly. That gives me foot control of the Powercab volume with a Kickdisk on the Helix Big volume knob.

My biggest compliment to the c12k is that signature high frequency compression. Not sure if that is to do with the IR or not.

Also a great speaker for keeping a tight yet full low end.
Yep - for me it's a "compromise" speaker in the sense that I like some better for cleans, some for ODs....but with a Fender Blackface amp it really is quite a great speaker.


Hi Clint, the pack will see alot of updates. :)



I know the question was for Dave but I will give a little insight. When doing Kemper profiles I will experiment consistently with mic placement to get the perfect profile (the Kemper tends to be picky.) Once I find that perfect placement I will also shoot an IR of it. The IR will then be processed to match the sound coming out of the real speaker in the room when using the Powercab + in frfr mode. What you end up with is a not just any ol' IR but a refined IR that just sounds great. And not just with the Powercab.



There are a couple sound samples on soundcloud of the Redback and EVH in hard rock mixes. The same IRs have been well recieved with many different styles using amps such as Marshall, BE100, Mesa among others. The IRs are very new so I am sure we will see more clips soon.



The C12K is only currently available in the Powercab pack. This IR can be used in any device though it may need converted as it is only provided in 48k 24bit to keep things less confusing. If anyone was to purchase and need it converted I would be glad to do it for them.
Thanks for chiming in - I would have tagged you for the answers! And thanks for the new IRs - it's nice to find some options that get me what I want to hear so quickly.

That sounds awesome man!
Thanks! I was really pleased with how well my gig patch is recording.
 

Guitardave

Supporting Member
Cool! Sounds like this will work perfectly with my Amplifire 6 and Powercab standard.
I have a few IRs that I have applied eq to to get what I want.
Sounds like what was done here with the PC in mind.
It's a good idea.
Agreed. That's why I was intrigued about Powercab specific IRs...if you know which output speaker/FRFR/etc. is being used you can get even better results. I'm surprised Atomic doesn't offer CLR specific IRs that are optimized around the response of the CLR.

Not sure that everyone is getting the fact that I'm running my Powercab in LF Flat or LF Raw mode when using the IRs. So what I am hearing as my stage monitor doesn't have the tweeter engaged - it still sounds great, it's just more "amp like" without that annoying hi-frequency driver anywhere close to my ear.

For me, that is shaping up to be the simplest thing to do. Mind you, it's not like the FRFR mode on the Powercab is bad - but I just prefer it more when it's off. But I've been pretty consistent about my dislike of "tweeters" in my guitar monitoring forever. That exaggerated hi-end gets balanced out over distance - but when I'm 4-5 feet away from it then it's just annoying me. YMMV

I bought the Powercab Plus model for a variety of reasons but for this application the standard would work fine. The modeler choice shouldn't matter - but having a separate path for the PA and Powercab so you can have individual volume controls and selectively do some minor EQ/tone shaping is really handy.

And this stuff is still all just experiments - so far I'm getting great results with all these methods:
  • Powercab speaker modeling (Green and Cream are my favorites)
  • LF Raw/Flat mode with IRs - LRS V30 and C12k
  • FRFR mode with IRs - LRS V30 and C12k. Works well but I can hear "tweeter" and it annoys me.

One other really important note - I listen to the speakers on the gig in tilt-back mode so it's on-axis to my ears. So I'm hearing that sound very directly. I do that because it allows me to keep my stage volume very low compared to having the cab face straight out. If I'm able to have the cab 10 + feet behind me on stage then I don't worry about it as much. Typically that's not the case in the smaller clubs I tend to play.

Your own monitoring position dictates so much about how you perceive tone. That's why "most" guitar players tones are way to bright with real amps - because they aren't hearing the actual sound of the speaker - most of it is passing by them at knee height. FRFR type speakers sound fine to me when I do that because you aren't hearing the tweeter when it's shooting past your knees. But take that monitor/guitar cab and point it so it's on-axis to your ears and that's a totally different world of sound that you hear. No real right or wrong - just very different perceptions of the same tone.

So this whole endless modeler thru FRFR argument that "you hear what the audience hears" is largely bunk IMHO - because each speaker system and where it is placed and where each listener is positioned relative to it is always different. But it's still better than a too bright, too loud guitar amp blasting everyone from the stage, or a crappy mic job where you have lousy FOH tone because of lack of skill of the person running sound to "get it right".

My $.02...
 

Guitardave

Supporting Member
@Guitardave have you tried the Weber 12F150?
Not sure but I don't think so. @Dead-Pan sent me a few IRs to try and I don't think that was one of them.

With IRs I just scroll thru them till I hear something that seems to be close to what I like and then I just tweak the amp tone stack a bit. I know I could take a more disciplined approach but I'm not particularly "patient" when it comes to tweaking stuff. It takes longer for me to type this stuff then the actual process of getting to the tones.
 
When doing Kemper profiles I will experiment consistently with mic placement to get the perfect profile (the Kemper tends to be picky.) Once I find that perfect placement I will also shoot an IR of it. The IR will then be processed to match the sound coming out of the real speaker in the room when using the Powercab + in frfr mode. What you end up with is a not just any ol' IR but a refined IR that just sounds great. And not just with the Powercab.
So the difference between these and "standard" IRs is that these are EQ'd to compensate for the response of the PC in FRFR mode not being completely flat? That does sound useful for PC users, but less so for direct recording, or with other speakers.
 


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