Long Neck Tenon On Les Paul

Discussion in 'Guitars in General' started by TheRover, Mar 5, 2006.


  1. TheRover

    TheRover Supporting Member

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    Allright,
    I need some feedback/opinions. What do you all think about the long neck tenon on historics vs short neck tenon on std. Gibson USA? I have owned a 1970 LP Custom, 2000 Classic Limited Edition, 1987 Custom Shop, 2001 58 Historic Flamed Butterscotch, 2003 LP Elegant, 2002 LP Standard. and the list goes on. They all had different sounds etc.? I've done numerous p/up changes, Tonepros, lightweight tailpieces, RS Guitarworks electronic upgrades. PLEK Setups. Some sounded great, others just OK. Just like in the music store. You can pick up 4 different LP's and they all have their own tonal characteristics.
    I just custom ordered a Heritage H150 and need to decide between long or short neck tenon. Heritage swears, as well as other folks that it is all Folklore? Of course tone is all in your fingers, but some guitar to sound better than others-same exact make etc.
    What do you think?
    Thanks
     
  2. hawkeyeinexile

    hawkeyeinexile Silver Supporting Member

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    seems to me the long neck thing is pretty much answered by the Firebird (neck-through). i mean, if that was the major feature, then everyone would want neck-through Les Pauls. IMHO the Heritage and the Hamer approaches are as toneful as Gibson's. my Chapins don't have long neck tenons either :D AFAIK

    :cool:
     
  3. TheRover

    TheRover Supporting Member

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    I agree, but we are not talking about a full neck through. It's a little added wood from the neck into the neck pickup cavity when gluing neck to body. Firebird and neck-through is a completely different build design.
    Thanks
     
  4. Rich

    Rich Silver Supporting Member

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    TheRover

    If they are offering you a choice, why would you NOT go with the long?

    Not a loaded or trick question. I also have had a lot of LPs-- short and some long. I do think my R8 is probably one of if not the best sounding Ive had, but I sincerely doubt that its the tenon that does it. Waay too many other factors to consider.

    But whats the downside to going with the long? Seems to me that, on the surface, you wouldnt have anything to lose.
     
  5. THROBAK

    THROBAK Gold Supporting Member

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    I think the wait for a long tenon from Heritage is 6+ months. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong. When I was at Heritage I asked if they did long tenons and they said no. I have since talked to Jay Wolfe and they said Heritage will do long tenons but they have to stop production to do it and for that reason they rarely get around to it.
     
  6. Grap

    Grap Member

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  7. TheRover

    TheRover Supporting Member

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    THROBAK,
    Right on! Yes, I buy all of my Heritages from Jay Wolfe, including this one I just ordered. Heritage will do it, but it will take quite a while? Believe it or not, a couple of years ago I was having a Mcnaught built and called Heritage to see if they do long neck tenons. There response was that all Heritage's come with a LNT?

    I want the guitar as quickly as possible?
     
  8. xdisciplex

    xdisciplex Member

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    i like the long tendon better.
     
  9. Lestercollector

    Lestercollector Supporting Member

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    About 98 % of my Japanese Les Pauls are long Tenon. Most them based on the 59 specs. I'm told it helps the guitar sustain better, but to be honest, the best sustain I get is from a Les paul that does not have a long tenon...? So, I dont know. I do know that in regards to collecting Japanese Les Pauls, the long tenon is what everyone wants.
     
  10. Hendrix95

    Hendrix95 Member

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    Personally, I think its hype. I don't really think it makes that big of a difference. Alot of people think its the tenon that makes historics sound better than standards, but I think its the wood. They're made with a much better grade of wood, so there's plenty of other factors involved.
     
  11. HHB

    HHB Member

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    if your wanting a decent clean tone or the BB King blues thing the long tenon is the way to go IMO, if your mainly a distortion guy it wont matter as much ( I prefer the long tenon )
     
  12. Johnnytone

    Johnnytone Supporting Member

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    The long tenon is a better join. Period. Whether it makes a difference in how the guitar sounds will be argued to death.

    Ask any woodworker which joint they would prefer.
     
  13. fast ricky love

    fast ricky love Supporting Member

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    I used to think it was all about the long tenon too...

    But now I say give me a guitar with superior wood.

    One of the best guitars I've ever played is a Les Paul Heritage 80 I picked up recently - it of course has a short tenon. But the wood on this instrument is as resonant and toneful as any old wood guitar I own or have played, and it kills any Historic (with long tenon) I've owned or played.

    Of course a great piece of wood with a long tenon is best case scenario! But I say a long tenon ain't as desirable if it's on a Historic with punky wood... my 2 cents!!
     
  14. daddyo

    daddyo Guest

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    Go to the Les Paul Forum. They've burned up a zillion megabytes debating this topic. Yes, it's better joint from a woodworker's perspective but a woodworker is concerned about strength and I've never heard of a short tenon neck popping out of the body. Tone is the question and many short tenon Pauls sound great. Many pancake Norlin Pauls sound great. Some Historics sound mediocre. Play and discover.
     
  15. Gary Ladd

    Gary Ladd Member

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    I lost the link that physically compared the two pictorially side-by-side, but after seeing them it removed all doubt for me...

    Tighter joint, TONS more contact between the body & neck.

    Wanna see the difference? Play a Standard and palm-trem the headstock, then try to do that with a historic.

    Personally I'll never buy a non-long tenon LP again ;)
     
  16. THROBAK

    THROBAK Gold Supporting Member

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    I have seen the Gibson short and long tenons side by side and the Gibson short tenon has a curved underside so they can fudge the neck angle without having to carve the bottom of the neck tenon. this means that the bottom side of a Gibson short tenon is largely unglued. However I do not thin the Heritage short tenon has this hump on the bottom of the neck so I don't think the long and short tenon question is as much of an issue with the Heritage guitars. I also think the Heritage short tenon is wider than the Gibson short tenon. I will see if I can get a closer look at the tenon next time I go to Heritage.
     
  17. fast ricky love

    fast ricky love Supporting Member

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    True Gary, but they use the better wood for Historics versus the less resonant wood with tons of weight-relief holes in the body on regular production guitars... so how much of that effect is construction and how much is the wood???? Who knows???? ;)
     
  18. teddy boy

    teddy boy Member

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    Anybody got that link?
     
  19. Wizard of Ozz

    Wizard of Ozz Silver Supporting Member

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    The long tenon does make a difference as does the non weight relieved body. Anyone that tells you different has not simply owned enough LPs to hear the difference.

    Tenons and holes aside, I'd be more concerned how well it can stay in tune. I've owned around 15 Historic LPs (plus a boat load of Standards)... and keeping them in tune was my biggest complaint. Kluson tuners, miscut nuts, etc. were the biggest complaints of mine that affected their sound.

    I currently don't own any LPs... and doubt I will again.
     
  20. Thwap

    Thwap Member

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    That's the way I feel. I've had a number of LPs since the 70's, including historics, and I think the best sounding, most resonant acoustically, killer Les Paul I've ever had is an 02 Standard, I'll go to my grave with this one. Don't get me wrong, I'm getting more historics, they're great guitars. But in my experience it's more a sum of all the parts other than Long neck tenon=superior tone, short neck tenon inferior tone.
     

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