Looking for good speaker emulators....

Discussion in 'Recording/Live Sound' started by Zanary, Jul 28, 2006.


  1. Zanary

    Zanary Member

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    ...because turning my Budda SD80 loose in my apartment would be like Hiroshima for my neighbors, but my Genesis 3 can't duplicate its tone.:confused:

    My home recording rig is very simple: a small Alesis board into an extrenal Soundblaster USB. I'm looking to upgrade to a better USB sound arrangement (I'm weighing a few at this time) but this is what I have here and now.

    Little help?
     
  2. silot

    silot Member

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  3. elambo

    elambo Member

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    The Palmer is IT! Feed it a good tone and it can be hard to tell that it's not an actual cabinet. The PDI-09 will act only as a speaker simulator - you'll still need a load box if you're going to use it directly with your amp.

    http://palmergear.com/pdi09.shtml

    I've dealt with the above company a few times and their service was tops each time.
     
  4. elambo

    elambo Member

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    This is just wrong. You're suggesting that he use one amp simulator, then another, then another, then a 10-band "paragraphic" eq??? :jo

    The eq, maybe, but not a 10-band. And why do you suggest 3 amp simulator at the same time?
     
  5. silot

    silot Member

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    Maybe I didn't clear this out: the 2 di 's are not supposed to be stacked, but to be used each on its own.
    As for the software sim and the eq, I 've found that different mic settings from the Guitar Rig can help the direct signal cut through a busy guitar/keyboard mix, and the 10 band eq can help on the same direction IF you're not using something like the Rig.

    It's not theory. It's practise, every time I lay down direct tracks in the studio I work. Maybe you should try it too.
     
  6. silentstudios

    silentstudios Member

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    I suggest trying the V-stack Classic (http://www.v-stack.com). I've had mine for about a year now, and I still think it sounds excellent. Next best thing to miking up IMHO. On that note, however I am in the process of soundproofing a room so I can blast my Matchless Superchief ... so ... if you think you might like the v-stack, I am selling.
     
  7. TAVD

    TAVD Guitar Player Gold Supporting Member

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  8. elambo

    elambo Member

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    When you use words like "additional tools" and "partner" it sure sounds like your suggesting that they all be used in addition to the other speaker sims. And the eq - sure, it's almost always necessary... but "10" bands of eq?

    No offense, but if I didn't know better I'd have been scared after reading your post that it's difficult to get a good tone with the Palmer and that a lot of other work is necessary, which is not the case. The Palmer is damn near plug-and-play.
     
  9. tonefreak

    tonefreak Member

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    amp > THD Hotplate > Line Out > Radial Reamp > PODxt (studio mode; "no amp" amp sim > Protools

    Results:

    http://www.tonefreak.com/MP3/RSA23.mp3
    http://www.tonefreak.com/MP3/RSA23-2.mp3

    I've tried all the Palmer stuff, Motherload, Redbox, Cab-tone, etc... the method I described above has been the best and most realistic sounding of anything else I have tried with the exception of the NI GuitarRig 2.
     
  10. silot

    silot Member

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    You're right. From your point of view what I suggested, and mainly how I done it may be confusing and scary...
    BUT it's not that I'm a relaxed person,enjoying his home studio,having enough time to find the perfect tone for that solo....
    My reality as an engineer and session player is very chaotic, and every time I'm given more than 10' to think of a hook and find the perfect tone for it, I'm truly thankful.
    In that vein, as you understand , I'm sharing my knowledge / opinion based on what I've seen and what I think that works...

    Closing, yes the Palmers are almost plug and play - especially when you're
    having a simplified approach to what you're about to mix.
    On the other hand, when dealing with projects that exceed 55-60 tracks, stuffed with synths, loops, tons of vocals and more guitars, I certainly believe that a 10-band eq may be absolutely vital in helping you preserve the tonal quality that you've dearly paid for...
    But that's just me, ..... if it works for me this doesn't mean it's going to work for everybody.
     
  11. elambo

    elambo Member

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    I respect your way of recording/mixing if it's working for you, but as a piece of advice - if you can't fix the tone with a 3-band eq then you need to consider rerecording the source. In all my years I've never needed more than 4 bands, even for the absolute WORST sounding material. On top of that, we're talking specifically about a Palmer, which suggests that you're playing and recording in a very controlled environment which can't really induce too may problems, unless those problems are happening at the amp. In those cases, adjust the amp. Or pedals. Or guitar. Or tell the damn guitar player to get his sh!t together... Like I said, this is my advice - do whatever works for you.

    You may be forced into rapid decisions while recording because of a hectic schedule - and who isn't - but on this forum you have the opportunity to slow down and suggest the RIGHT way. And isn't that a main reason for group dialogue like this to begin with?
     
  12. silot

    silot Member

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    Seems you're right again...[​IMG]
    Ok,let's take it from the top .

    A Palmer could do the job just fine. Now, when it comes to mixing, and if you feel that your tone lacks a certain something,that nothing in the tone chain could fix, you could probably use some additional filtering (EQ or a software sim) and see if it helps.
     
  13. Zanary

    Zanary Member

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    Holy....

    ...okay, I'm apparently too used to other site where I put in a query, and then wait a week for a single reply. Apparently, I should have come to this board long ago!

    I'll find a load box, and a Digi USB interface...and start with the Palmer, probably. I'll likely just consolidate all the posts and see how much of this stuff is available to me locally, so I can try it before coughing up the cash. I should get the Hotplate anyway, the Budda likes being used hard.

    Thanks to all...I guess I could have simplified things by stating that this will be for rock tracks, likely no more than 4-5 guitar tracks per song, and very little synth or heavy effects use.
     
  14. BluesForDan

    BluesForDan Supporting Member

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    An interesting device, especially if you are going to do rock tracks, is an original SansAmp pedal, the reissues are called the Classic. If time is not a constraint, with tweaking (8 dip switches, 4 knobs and a 3 position switch), you can get some very decent tones. If you are looking for plug-n-play, this probably would not be the right piece for you.

    The output is designed to be flat, so you can further shape the tone with outboard eq, etc.
     
  15. Zanary

    Zanary Member

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    My main concern is getting my Budda sound in an apartment environment. As I said above, my Genesis 3 is a wonderful piece but my Budda is more wonderful still.

    I am familiar with the Sansamp stuff, and am quiote fond of it...but I want my Budda's tone.
     
  16. elambo

    elambo Member

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    Then you'll be in good shape with the Palmer...
     
  17. aleclee

    aleclee TGP Tech Wrangler Staff Member

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    I've been meaning to do a quad test, playing the same part through an SM57, Red Box, AxeTrak (iso cab) and the speaker sim on my POD XTL. Hopefully I'll be able to knock that out this weekend. If so I'll post clips.
     
  18. bowlingballbaby

    bowlingballbaby Supporting Member

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    The original Palmer PDI-03 is hard as anything to find, but the reviews here and elsewhere seem to point toward it being the shizzz. After the Groove Tubes lawsuit, apparently the later models went to the dogs. If I wasn't so damn busy doing things like playing gigs and trying to make living I'd be saving my money and scouring Craigslist and eBay for an original PDI-03. Motherload, Guitar Rig and every other imaginable combo of attenuator/EQ/re-amp/etc may serve your needs, but I've been doing a lot of reading and all options seem to have some proponents and detractors...except the PDI-03. All good news on that one...at least that's what I've read.
     
  19. elambo

    elambo Member

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    FYI - The Palmer 03 has been rereleased and it's just as the original. I have the new one and it's phenomenal. The designer himself was very strict with the manufacturing, even going so far as to find the original knobs (although I believe he had to find a different company to make them).

    Best part -- they're MUCH cheaper than what you see on eBay for the old ones. I guess the word isn't out yet that these are available...
     
  20. MichaelK

    MichaelK Member

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    Old post deleted, new post reflecting my ability to read (ahem)...

    elambo, what do you think of the new PDI-03 compared to the PGA-04?

    According to the designer, the PGA-04 is an expanded PDI-03 but apparently people are not as nuts about it.

    Here's what the designer had to say about the differences:

    What is the difference between the PDI-03 and PGA-04 filter circuits?
    "The PGA-04 was my answer to customers asking for more versatility. Though you may read many different comments, the heart of the PGA-04 is the original filter circuit with the two switches replaced thru two potentiometers for a continuous control between the extreme positions of the switches...

    "The PDI-03 was a very simple to use piece of equipment. You couldn’t go wrong. With the more versatile PGA-04 you can produce some really weird sounds. But this does not mean that -as some people say- the PGA-04 is rubbish." (Here's the full interview)

    I'm very interested in what users of both units have to say, as I'm about to buy one or the other. Mainly, if it's really "the same only better," I'm very curious to know why it hasn't caught on.
     

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