Looking for shred type lessons that are not so shreddy

Discussion in 'Playing and Technique' started by jrkoosh, Dec 30, 2017.


  1. jrkoosh

    jrkoosh Silver Supporting Member

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    :)
    I got together with a friend to jam last night- it was a blast! Even though we played some old blues jam and Phish tunes, I loved how he could turn the gas on and do very fast yet musical shred licks to wrap up a standard blues solo (he also teaches composition at berklee, so that doesn't hurt). I asked him where he picked that up, and he said he was listening to alot of Guthrie Goven

    I grew up in the Maiden/Yngvie days, but never really tried to play at that level. I do enjoy it when Jimmy Herring pulls out the fast licks, EJ somewhat and Bonnamassa. Does anybody know of some players and lessons to bump up the speed for extra flourish? I don't dig the super fast chromatic metal stuff that I have found- I do prefer it to be more melodic to the rock/blues/jam style that I am currently gigging. I did see that Brad Carlton has a speed series of lessons. I would like a method based, metronome, step by step approach- not just a series of licks to memorize fast.

    Sorry if this is vague- happy to provide more details. Or maybe I should join the Eruption gang :)
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2017
  2. Ejay

    Ejay Supporting Member

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    Check alan hinds video’s
     
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  3. clayt0n

    clayt0n Member

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    Troy Grady has some great lessons on YouTube, his influences ride the middle ground between shred/guitar rock, blues-rock, and "jazz fusion" (guys like Govan, Holdsworth, Shawn Lane, etc). He covers technique and gets more in depth than just "learn this lick".
     
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  4. Beto

    Beto Supporting Member

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    What I've been driven into by my teacher is hybrid picking. It can REALLY speed up and spice up the approach to usual stuff like pentatonics.

    Here's an example of a basic lesson he showed me (turn on English subtitles):

     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2018
  5. Sascha Franck

    Sascha Franck Member

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    Well, there's plenty of Guthrie Govan lessons on YT already and the man himself has 2-3 (?) books out already. So, in case he was good enough for your mate, why not check him out for yourself? IMO he's doing really well in terms of "tasty non shreddy shredding".
    I also second the Alan Hinds tip. Fantastic player.
     
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  6. JohnnyBGoode

    JohnnyBGoode Member

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    Eric Johnson's licks are all based on pentatonic sequences - they are melodic, speedy and impressive... maybe start there?
     
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  7. guitargeek6298

    guitargeek6298 Member

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    Definitely recommend Guthrie Govan lessons on YouTube.

    Playing like that is all about melody first, speed second, even though he does play a lot of fast lines. But he's often playing very creatively, and not just easy 3 note per string patterns.

    Here's Guthrie playing over a blues track (although this isn't a lesson per se):

     
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  8. guitarjazz

    guitarjazz Member

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    Get the Chris Thiele instructional DVD, the one where he's about 14 years-old, and shredding the Bach Partitas....but not shredding.
     
  9. ivers

    ivers Member

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  10. jrkoosh

    jrkoosh Silver Supporting Member

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    Thanks everybody- this has opened up some more introspective thinking. After diving into some of the players here, I realized that I really like the styles of Allen Hinds and Mark Lettieri (among others). Quick history on me:
    - started playing rhythm guitar in 88, and really did not practice as much (all my friends blew past me). As such, I never worked on lead
    - Got "inspired" to play lead after seeing Kimock play when Phish was on hiatus in 2002.
    - Did Jimmy Bruno school, thinking I needed jazz chops to play Phish tunes
    - bounced around between Boston teachers and Truefire- I was using a friend in Boston to help with tunes my cover bands were doing. Using Truefire to bump up chops and knowledge.
    - for the last 5 years alot of this knowledge disappeared. 3rd daughter born, coaching soccer, becoming exec at my company. My only outlet to play has been a local blues jam

    what I have realized (I think) is that :
    - I need/want to increase my theory
    - Want to focus on modal playing
    - Increase speed to be able to add some excitement
    - the record a video and wait for feedback model doesn't work for me anymore
    - If I don't have weekly/biweekly goals and checkins I will start screwing around
    - I am also unsure of what "style" to focus on. I am a little sick of the standard blues. I am not a jazz purist but do really like Miles, Joe Pass, Wes, Grant green. As much as I like listening to Phish, I don't have the desire to play complicated Phish tunes. But I had a lot of fun playing a progression they did (F>Fmaj>Fm>Bb>Fdim). The shredder stuff I have heard is impressive but is not what I want (that Guthrie vid was awesome though!).

    I think this leaves Skype and in person. In person is tough for me, unless I could find somebody in downtown Boston that I could meet during work hours (and not bring a guitar)
    I worry about Skype being too freeform, and would hope that if I went that route it would follow some type of structure.

    sorry- this is a lot, but its been bouncing around in my head for a bit.
     
  11. Tom Gross

    Tom Gross Member

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    He's kind of fast (lotta notes) and in a legato style, but Tom Quayle is an amazing & inspiring player, and I really dig his theoretical approach to playing. Excellent lessons.
     
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  12. ninjaaron

    ninjaaron Member

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    Are you talking about modal jazz (where the music is focused on pedal tones and modal ideas more than chords, like this) or just the usual thing of using a modal approach to playing changes.

    Because modal jazz is friggin' awesome.
     
  13. jrkoosh

    jrkoosh Silver Supporting Member

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    I do like that type of modal jazz, and would love to play like this. I do, however, want to caution that I don't want to make it look like I want to jump all over the place and be able to play everything. Above all else, I want it to sound sweet and tasty, with all of the right notes, and enough space to breathe
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2018
  14. jrkoosh

    jrkoosh Silver Supporting Member

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    Thanks- I bought all of the guitar breakdown videos for Allan, and have contacted him for a Skype session. They are amazing. The guy that runs the site is amazing as well. I also started doing the TrueFire Jazz learning path while I sort this out. Lots of stuff in the beginner section that I had forgotten about. Sheryl Bailey and Frank Vignola are excellent instructors.
     
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  15. guitarjazz

    guitarjazz Member

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    Do you know any tunes? That's most important. Make sure you're not spending time practicing 'avoiding the obvious'. Common trap.
     
  16. jrkoosh

    jrkoosh Silver Supporting Member

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    JAzz tunes? Nope. Tons of rock and blues. Would love any advice or pointers to threads
     
  17. toddincharlotte

    toddincharlotte Supporting Member

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    Not to insult your level of playing, but are you able to play diatonically in all positions and keys? That is to say, for instance, in Am are you able to play notes in Am anywhere on the neck as indicated in these patterns?




    If you are then it definitely makes sense to hop into altered scales and progressions. Learning these patterns [or similar diatonic patterns] was the key that helped me to go beyond blues playing into much more melodic soloing. Adding altered scales and modes from there "spiced" it but the core of my melodic soloing comes from these patterns and diatonic arpeggios.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2018
  18. jrkoosh

    jrkoosh Silver Supporting Member

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    I am not offended at all! Very much appreciate all feedback

    I learned these all as "shapes" when I did the Jimmy Bruno stuff 10 years ago. However, I play them exactly like that- shapes, and as scales. I am pretty locked into CAGED and the corresponding scales shapes. I also only would only play that shape if there was an Am vamp (that's where I am at- not saying its correct- hence the starting from scratch)
     
  19. toddincharlotte

    toddincharlotte Supporting Member

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    Well that's a great starting point for diatonic playing. Granted a lot of jazz goes beyond diatonic playing but I would refresh these playing over simple progressions in major and minor to start. I IV IV / i iv v / I IV ii V / i iv ii v etc.

    This sounds so basic but it's a basic skill that a TON of players lack. At the most basic playing level guys don't have any patterns. The next level up is pentatonic playing only...lacking the two [or two x five if we're talking the entire fretboard] extra notes in diatonic scales. The next level is having the diatonic patterns in your hands but not really playin "in" the progression [i.e. playing a c and e on a "iv" in a minor]. The next level can play the patterns and stay "in" the progression. The level beyond that is adding "color" to those patterns with non chords within your progressions in ways that make sense. Finally, being able to play in non-diatonic progressions.

    There is a ton of theory you can learn to help you, I've found Tag's Benson Method to be helpful [discussed at length on this board] but in the end practicing those things over changes is what's going to move you forward. You won't get in a rut so long as you vary progressions underneath what you're playing. The progressions lead your melodic ideas by the nature of what notes those triads or chords are made of.

    Let me know if this makes sense.

    As for technique there are a ton of instructional videos out there but what helped me most with speed were "bursts". I play patterns in eighths 2x - 3x at a given tempo paying close attention to what both my hands are doing and then burst a 4th repetition in 16th notes. Start with small phrases, 6-8 notes within a pattern, grow out from there. You can inch up on a metronome that way, but I was never able to just play 16ths at 100 and then play 16ths at 108.....just didn't work for me.....bursts did.
     
  20. guitarjazz

    guitarjazz Member

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    First off the point is to make music with others, thus whether you are playing bluegrass, rock, blues, or jazz its way important to have common repertoire.
    For jazz, the best advice I had was 'learn ten tunes'. If you attempt to learn learn hundreds,you'll be overwhelmed. Plus, if you have those ten tunes memorized you'll be able to improvise on them a thousand times better.
    Pick up the Jamey Aebersold play-along book/CD Maiden Voyage. Start there.
     
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