loopers- how do you keep the loops from being dark and indistinct?

[feet]

i recently trotted out my old jamman looper (not the stereo) and got it going again. i had always used it as riff storage but now i want to try playing solo live with it.

my problem with it is that i'll put down some chords to form the basis of my loop, and it sounds alright as i'm recording it, but as soon as the loop starts, its sort of muddy and dark, compared to what i just played. i've been trying to compensate with overly bright amp settings, and experimenting with my eq pedal before and after the looper, as well as varying the settings on my guitar. it sort of works, but not really well, and not at all conveniently.

not wanting to have to buy another looper, i started watching demos for other brands and i noticed the same thing with some of them as well. what goes in isn't (exactly) what comes out. and the more you layer, the more you run together.

i know it makes sense to layer low and high parts with different pickup selections and such to make the individual parts more distinct, but i don't want to make loops like that. i just want to loop the verse chords (for instance) so i can add an arpeggiated part the second time around, and maybe a a quick noodle here and there, with the occasional bass line, if need be and go back and forth between verses and choruses. i want to play songs, not soundscapes, i guess you could say.

playing the counter points and melodies first to keep the chords clear is counter-intuitive and i don't want to have to rely on pre-recorded tracks all the time. i want to keep things simple and light and won't be able to send them to different places. its all coming out of one amp, not a mixer or pa. is this sort of thing just part of dealing with loopers, or just mine? thoughts?

 

[chankgeez]

fuzz?

 

[tremolo3]

Treble booster?

 

[Redrum]

The OP's looper concerns are the main reason I popped for the Pigtronix Infinity Looper. The sound quality and general fidelity of the playback loops is remarkable. I keep the two separate loops in "series" mode which allows me to lay down a chorus loop and verse loop. One-tap switching between them opens-up all sorts of possibilities. As a practice tool it's been invaluable. Pricey unit, but worth every penny.

 

[Tom Von Kramm]

Experiment with the position of the looper. The output is buffered so it may not be playing nice with your other pedals.

 

[Redrum]

Probably should mention I use all George L's for my cable needs.

 

[feet]

fuzz?

Treble booster?

no, this is going to be an acoustic/clean thing, possibly while busking. so no dirt.

Experiment with the position of the looper. The output is buffered so it may not be playing nice with your other pedals.

i've experienced the same thing when i go guitar > looper > amp. is there another way around it? it is a little better if i run the looper into one amp and then use a stereo pedal (rv7) to go to another amp, but that isn't really feasible once i leave the house. i'd run minimal pedals with it, anyhow.

The OP's looper concerns are the main reason I popped for the Pigtronix Infinity Looper. The sound quality and general fidelity of the playback loops is remarkable. I keep the two separate loops in "series" mode which allows me to lay down a chorus loop and verse loop. One-tap switching between them opens-up all sorts of possibilities. As a practice tool it's been invaluable. Pricey unit, but worth every penny.

that looks a little involved, but very nice. lets hope it doesn't come to that. does seem to be what i'm after, though. at least tonally.

my cables and power supplies and buffers and all that are fine, otherwise. for what that is worth. as are the guitar and amp settings, but playing with those constantly to deal with this.

 

[jasevenny]

The OP's looper concerns are the main reason I popped for the Pigtronix Infinity Looper. The sound quality and general fidelity of the playback loops is remarkable. I keep the two separate loops in "series" mode which allows me to lay down a chorus loop and verse loop. One-tap switching between them opens-up all sorts of possibilities. As a practice tool it's been invaluable. Pricey unit, but worth every penny.

This has also been my experience with the Pigtronix infinity. I can't tell the difference between the live sound and the recorded sound.

 

[jjasleby]

This doesn't sound to me like something you're doing wrong or something you can compensate for, but rather a potential problem with the pedal. In my cursory search, I didn't find the actual sample rate of an older gen Jamman, but even with it being an older pedal, I think the recording quality should be better than what you're experiencing. The only thing I can think to check on your end would be whether the input gain is set too low. If the pedal is getting a weak input signal, it might affect the fidelity of the recording.

Otherwise, I think you're looking at a problem with the pedal itself. Not the answer anyone wants to hear, but I can't think of anything else that would cause your signal to sound fine going through the pedal, but degrade when it's being played back internally.

 

[splatt]

This doesn't sound to me like something you're doing wrong or something you can compensate for, but rather a potential problem with the pedal. In my cursory search, I didn't find the actual sample rate of the 1st gen Jamman, but even with it being an older pedal, I think the recording quality should be better than what you're experiencing.

for clarity's sake, the 1st gen Jamman wasn't a pedal; 1u rack device.

 

[feet]

This doesn't sound to me like something you're doing wrong or something you can compensate for, but rather a potential problem with the pedal. In my cursory search, I didn't find the actual sample rate of an older gen Jamman, but even with it being an older pedal, I think the recording quality should be better than what you're experiencing. The only thing I can think to check on your end would be whether the input gain is set too low. If the pedal is getting a weak input signal, it might affect the fidelity of the recording.

Otherwise, I think you're looking at a problem with the pedal itself. Not the answer anyone wants to hear, but I can't think of anything else that would cause your signal to sound fine going through the pedal, but degrade when it's being played back internally.

from the manual
A/D/A Converters: 24-bit audio
Sampling Frequency: 44.1 kHz
Audio Format: Uncompressed .wav 44.1 kHz 16 bit mono

that should be plenty. i actually have the instrument level a bit higher than the loop level, which makes the difference a little more stark as to when i stop playing and a loop starts. but it keeps the live guitar from getting buried under the loops. the sound isn't degraded, its just sort of muffled, like some of the upper mids and highs are shaved. no artifacts or whatever.

further experimentation suggests that it is particular about the pedals i had around it and, perhaps more likely, it is a little heavy handed with the buffering. i can compensate by brightening up the amp and that seems to help. i'll have to play with the pedals and maybe try to bring in my lucky empress buffer plus and see what changes. not sure there is a way to defeat the buffer internally.

for clarity's sake, the 1st gen Jamman wasn't a pedal; 1u rack device.

for the sake of further clarity, this is the older two button foot pedal thing i'm talking about

This has also been my experience with the Pigtronix infinity. I can't tell the difference between the live sound and the recorded sound.

pigtronix demos definitely sound good. i'll give it that much. but so pricey! but i'm just so used to the jamman, and i have a new 3 button switch coming for it.