Looping for Guitarists: An Open Letter to FX Manufacturers

Crazyquilt

The Fool
Gold Supporting Member
Messages
4,678
Success! I've only plugged it in about 10 minutes without thoroughly perusing the impressive, REAL manual. But my old EDP reflexes were good enough that I can loop, overdub, and multiply to my heart's content. Man, I missed Multiply.
I have to eat, and then back into it, for real.
 

celticelk

Member
Messages
1,987
The videos by @Gila_Crisis have done their job - I just ordered an LP2. Thanks, Joel!

In other news, although this new EHX 8 Step Process has to go in for replacement - it’s utterly unresponsive to any MIDI messages - my brief testing period with it definitely served as proof-of-concept for using it with the TimeFactor via the MC8. I was able to get the classic square-wave time modulation going by sequencing the Speed knob, as well as a very fun random-speed patch which shifts between forward and backward directions at both normal and half-speed. I should be able to get some interesting scramble-type effects by sequencing the Start parameter as well.

I’ve started thinking of the TimeFactor as a module in a "looper construction kit" which when paired with other devices like the MC8 and the 8 Step can achieve some pretty advanced behaviors. I’ve already got some granular time-stretch functions up and running, and some reasonable emulations of the Hexe Revolver modes, and I’m hoping to figure out one or two of the Motion Loop’s features as well, like the random-speed retriggering. It’s a good way to while away an afternoon.
 

Crazyquilt

The Fool
Gold Supporting Member
Messages
4,678
Welp. My Loupé has to go back to France. FedEx beat the **** out of it.

One of the encoders (ECD1) was damaged in shipping. As a result, I can't select a new game; I can only modify the current one. It registers turns, but not pushes, at least not consistently and dependably.

I'm just hoping it loops back here by fall at this point.
 

pyna

Member
Messages
212
ouch - only to have it ripped away.

it's been fascinating getting to know the loupe, I haven't even gone through the presets, still just stuck on a basic one, getting used to the controls, and finding ways to use the sync out musically.

(also, the static bug is known and being addressed. I emailed glou-glou about it and they sent me a beta firmware to try out)
 
Messages
908
New firmware for Beebo is up, improving MIDI bindings for the Loopler module, so you can control next / previous loop from MIDI and all commands can be either on the selected loop, a specific loop (i.e. insert on loop 5) or all loops. Also there's a new extra MIDI module for the Loopler that lets you feed internal CV generators to a CV to CC module and then you can use learn to assign them to any command / parameter. So for instance you can control rate from a sequencer, or record / overdub from a chaos controller so you can use controlled chaos to trigger commands.
 

WPmedia

Member
Messages
154
Success! I've only plugged it in about 10 minutes without thoroughly perusing the impressive, REAL manual. But my old EDP reflexes were good enough that I can loop, overdub, and multiply to my heart's content. Man, I missed Multiply.
I have to eat, and then back into it, for real.
Just received mine this morning and had a quick go at it during lunchbreak.
Call me impressed.
It IS a deep machine and dope AF...!!!!
 

splatt

david torn / splattercell
Platinum Supporting Member
Messages
25,823
@Gila_Crisis Ha, this was becoming a mostly Poly Beebo Loopler and Glou-Glou Loupé thread, and then you go and generously detail what looks to be another great option, which also offers features well beyond today’s “standard, simplified loopers”. I don’t know if I ever heard of any model of Looperlative—there’s always new discoveries and revelations awaiting me, when it comes to music gear. Thank you!
cool, yeah!

if you go back into this very thread, you’ll see focus on various loopers at various points in time throughout the years.
ie: so, we can sense the future & also represent the past, some of each def existing presently.


hexe
beebo
expedition electronics
chase bliss
eventide
oberheim/gibson/aurisis
ehx
maneco
red panda
line6
looperlative
lexicon
tc
electrix
various DAW/mobile apps

etc
 
Last edited:

kspicknell

Member
Messages
29
cool, yeah!

if you go back into this very thread, you’ll see focus on various loopers at various points in time throughout the years.
ie: so, we can sense the future & also represent the past, some of each def existing presently.


hexe
beebo
expedition electronics
chase bliss
eventide
oberheim/gibson/aurisis
ehx
maneco
red panda
line6
looperlative
lexicon
tc
electrix
various DAW/mobile apps
etc erc etc
Thank you for the refresher! Man, seeing all of them listed at once (again?) in this thread, makes me think someone could (maybe has?) make a definitive, illustrated timeline of looping—practice, tools, philosophy, recordings, proponents, etc. Then, I think: that could lead to a book proposal, and so then I wonder: could the book on looping history and practice be far off? Not unlike Pedal Crush, which was an enthralling read and continues to be a helpful reference and idea generator.

The main two things that make me think I won’t look into the newest Looperlative (meaning, that I have to find ways to talk myself out of anything else, other than what I have?): it seems like onboard control is very limited, like maybe it’s really “bring your own MIDI controller”. Also, the graphic design isn't the most aesthetically pleasing to me (why I labeled over and rechristened my Digitech Jamman SoloXT, now dubbed “Bloops Of Fury”, a reference to electronic group The Chemical Brothers).

Getting back to the list of companies and so on, what I DO have is not all the “definitive” or “classic” loopers likely alluded to (e.g., I employ a 720, not 16 Second, from EHX; DittoX4, not a 2290; and, I already alluded to my “not THAT” Jamman), I have more than a few loopers, from a few of those manufacturers (including CBA’s Blooper, and an EDP+), for better or worse… but mostly better :). Why multitrack, when I can have loopers inserted throughout my signal chain? Also, I got the Looperverse app, because of this thread and the recommendations from @splatt (even though the app may be a little long in the tooth, or in need of update, I still dig it).

Speaking of Red Panda, I got a Particle V2 this past weekend (Particle was mentioned at the very beginning of this thread, if I recall, in reference to guitarists being willing to try and use more daring hardware?), after using a dynamic/ducking TC delay for similar sounds (I had to keep fiddling with the time and feedback knobs, in order to “sound granular” with the TC — @The Holy Drinker is a master of this). Particle’s not necessarily a looper, per se, like my Tensor, but then the lines can get blurry, and sometimes 2-3 seconds is all the loop time one may need…?

I guess it’s all just buffers, after all?
 

Gila_Crisis

Member
Messages
927
@Gila_Crisis Ha, this was becoming a mostly Poly Beebo Loopler and Glou-Glou Loupé thread, and then you go and generously detail what looks to be another great option, which also offers features well beyond today’s “standard, simplified loopers”. I don’t know if I ever heard of any model of Looperlative—there’s always new discoveries and revelations awaiting me, when it comes to music gear. Thank you!
After the GLouGLou Loupe and the LP2 we can say 2021 is the year of the reborn loopers!

I just got a MorningStar MC3 to fully control the LP2 now... a game changer compared to the Midi Baby 3 (which I'll keep, as it may come in handy in other situations), now it feel like when I was using the LP1 with a Midiwizard footcontroller!
I think soon will do a new tutorial video about in depth Midi control capability of the LP2.
 

Gila_Crisis

Member
Messages
927
The main two things that make me think I won’t look into the newest Looperlative (meaning, that I have to find ways to talk myself out of anything else, other than what I have?): it seems like onboard control is very limited, like maybe it’s really “bring your own MIDI controller”.
I do use a midi controller, as of course you have full control.
But already stand alone the LP2 can deliver a lot. The accesibility to the config-menu and so to switch the effects-assign of the switches on the flight is very handy and easy to use.
It's one of those things you have to try out in real life to understand how it works, as I was also a bit skeptical in the beginning, when I first read the manual.
 

kspicknell

Member
Messages
29
I do use a midi controller, as of course you have full control.
But already stand alone the LP2 can deliver a lot. The accesibility to the config-menu and so to switch the effects-assign of the switches on the flight is very handy and easy to use.
It's one of those things you have to try out in real life to understand how it works, as I was also a bit skeptical in the beginning, when I first read the manual.
Thank you for the explanation; I bet others will find it helpful (except maybe if they want to whittle down their options ;)). And, you’re right, while reading the manual, watching videos, and even demoing in person can all be extremely helpful to do before purchasing, nothing is quite like finally having a piece home and learning it firsthand, for me. (That may be unfortunate, considering I don’t really like to let go of or sell gear, once purchased.)
 

celticelk

Member
Messages
1,987
The main two things that make me think I won’t look into the newest Looperlative (meaning, that I have to find ways to talk myself out of anything else, other than what I have?): it seems like onboard control is very limited, like maybe it’s really “bring your own MIDI controller”. Also, the graphic design isn't the most aesthetically pleasing to me (why I labeled over and rechristened my Digitech Jamman SoloXT, now dubbed “Bloops Of Fury”, a reference to electronic group The Chemical Brothers).
Your comment made me stop and think about what other "complex" loopers have in the way of "onboard control;" in that light, I don't personally feel that the LP2 is really at a disadvantage.

Loupe: 9 assignable buttons, but only 5 are foot-accessible, and since Record and Overdub are separate functions, you're limited to 3 immediately-accessible additional functions by foot control. (And since the EDP feature set doesn't have a "Stop" per se, you'll need to assign one of those to Mute if your style requires that functionality). Pedal input for feedback; no MIDI or aux switch capability.

EDP: 7 buttons on the front panel and foot controller, only a few of which can be swapped for other functions, and then only within limits (reverse and half-speed are both Insert modes, so you can't use both of them in real-time without MIDI); also see above re: Record and Overdub. Worth noting also that some of those buttons have additional functionality if you long-press or end a function with a different button. Pedal input for feedback; can be controlled by MIDI.

Boomerang III: Five buttons, three of which are dedicated Record/Play/Stop for individual tracks. The remaining two buttons can have two functions each (press and long-press), but Stack (the Rang's Overdub) and Erase are in that "optional" feature set, so unless you have *very* specific feature needs, you'll probably end up dedicating a button to those two, leaving one button with two assignable functions. Pedal input for feedback; no MIDI control, but accepts a proprietary Side Car (which is the same size as the original unit) which basically makes all of the assignable features available at once (though some of them will still be long-press actions).

The interesting thing about the LP2 is that it's the only one of these devices for which you can reassign the onboard buttons on the fly *by foot control only* - it's a bit clunky to do so, sure, but is it clunkier than navigating the EDP front panel or the Assign controls on the Rang III?
 

celticelk

Member
Messages
1,987
Pursuant to the "bring your own MIDI controller" point: I'm curious how those of you who are using pedal-form-factor loopers with MIDI function control (not just sync) arrange your setups. Are you still using the onboard footswitches at all? Do you put the unit at hand-height for knob-twiddling?

My (recently formulated) philosophy has been to use the onboard switches for lowest-latency access to "basic" functions, and to do everything else via MIDI. With the TimeFactor, that means that I'm using the onboard Rec/Dub, Play, and Stop controls, except in circumstances where I need the MC8 to send commands on a SUS basis. (My Revolver-emulating bank, for example, sends a STOP followed by a REC on "press," and a PLAY on "release.") I don't currently have an aux switch plugged in, but it's tempting to do so for unmediated access to the reverse and half/double-speed settings, although via MIDI I can move directly to combinations of those settings, and also "cue up" a Counter on the MC8 so that, for instance, I can go into Pause at full speed, and come out in reverse at half-speed by clicking the Pause button again. My MC8 setup for the TimeFactor has a "home" bank with one page of "basic" functions (Reverse, Octave, Mute/Unmute, Fade In/Out, DubMode, Erase, Reset, Tone) and a second page of links to "submenus," which are additional banks organized around a theme: one for Speed (direct access to full/half and forward/reverse combos, plus Pause and "Freeze," which rapidly toggles between Forward and Reverse to "hold" a loop in place), one for "Glitch" (the Revolver emulations), and so on. This setup is probably too complex for live performance, but right now I'm in R&D mode, so I'm trying to have as many things on-hand as possible while I work out what works well and "feels like me."

Following this philosophy with the LP2 (yes, I gamed out my choices for the onboard controls and MC8 bank functions for the LP2 before I bought it - why do you ask?), I'm planning to assign the two onboard multi-function switches to "Replace" and "Replace 16th," which gives me access to both quantized and unquantized versions of a SUS function that I imagine myself using fairly frequently. (@Andre LaFosse, this is entirely your fault. ;) ) With some judicious use of the MC8's Toggle function, I've managed to cram all of the additional features that I'd want to access via MIDI into a single bank on the MC8: one page is "loop transport" (individual track select, allstop/play, reverse, half-speed, sync record, etc), and one page is "loop mangling" (the Scramble controls, Double/Triple/Quadruple, Stretch, Shrink, etc.).

I also have MIDI looping controls set up for the HX Stomp, both to make the full functionality of the 1-Switch Looper available and to provide instant access to a range of controls for the Shuffling Looper, but that's a different kettle of fish. ;)
 




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