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Lovepedal Amp 11

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rob2001

Member
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16,939
Thats a total cop out to start saying that we now need this kind of innovation, competition. Yes I understand pedal evolution and inspired by and all that, but this situation is not that.
I was gonna say just that. There is another thread asking about 100% original builders and it's pretty obvious that a lot of things came from or were inspired by something else. That however, shouldn't be used as a reason to throw ethics out the window.
 

coldfingaz

Member
Messages
11,213
Funny how you can read a lot into a little. I think it's about time to let you guys get yourselves in trouble again. :brick


I think your repeated comments in this thread are quite clear & nothing much is being read into them.

It's pretty simple, really. Regardless of where you stand on the legitimate ethical debate at hand, your views are not going to be shared by everyone else.
 

fazen

Member
Messages
1,046
I guess I shouldn't be surprised that the douchbaggery that got the other thread locked is continuing in this thread.
 
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MegaMang

Member
Messages
61
I guess shouldn't be surprised that the douchbaggery that got the other thread locked is continuing in this thread.
I'm not sure where / if you stand on this at all, but either way I think you might be a little quick in calling something you don't agree with "douchebaggery."
 

DTuned

Member
Messages
904
Ethics are important but usually harder to define and subject to different but reasonable perspectives.

Would anyone refuse to buy a Suhr or Thorn or Anderson or Grosh "strat" on the basis that the body and other essentials are basically the same as Fender's designs? Does it matter whether we're talking about the design of a large corporation verses a small builder? One might argue that it does, ethically, but it shouldn't matter legally.

Put the ethics aside for a moment. I asked about legalities. The law determines whether Manufacturer B can use the guitar body design originated by Manufacturer A. What does the law say about using a distortion pedal circuit originated by another manufacturer? I don't know. Can anyone else answer that?
 

MegaMang

Member
Messages
61
I just bought a RAT pedal. I'm sure enjoying it.
Rat pedals are pretty cool, but also different circuits than the two pedals in this thread. Sort of off topic, but I do remember people wrongly calling the Tim / Timmy a modded Rat, but Rat pedals are diode-to-ground designs where the Tim / Timmy are diodes in a feedback loop. It would be closer to call it a modded Tubescreamer, but that's also pretty far from being accurate.

The overdrive on the Amp11, on the other hand, is verified to be the same circuit as the Timmy. There's just no getting around that.
 

popinvasion

Member
Messages
7,535
The so called other thread has a name "Lovepedal AMp Eleven offer- I bit,did you?" and I was the OP.
In the begining it was an innocent young thread with lots of hope and promise. One day the ugly people came and all the tone was sucked out of it, left for dead. The moderator saw the suffering and tone shed. He did the decent thing and put it out of it's misery. I think of it often but have moved on and am finding the tone elsewhere , but still worry about the fate of this thread.
It is growing weary and is in need of help but I don't know what to do.
Best of luck thread.

boy what suffering we are all enduring. Lets keep it simple no-one has been making this thread ugly, but several keep dramatizing the whole thing with these not accurate portrayals stating that its getting ugly, its not getting ugly. This thread is right on track nothing I can see is anything to get upset about, unless you fear truthful statements.
 

lesterchopper

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
630
Rat pedals are pretty cool, but also different circuits than the two pedals in this thread. Sort of off topic, but I do remember people wrongly calling the Tim / Timmy a modded Rat, but Rat pedals are diode-to-ground designs where the Tim / Timmy are diodes in a feedback loop. It would be closer to call it a modded Tubescreamer, but that's also pretty far from being accurate.

The overdrive on the Amp11, on the other hand, is verified to be the same circuit as the Timmy. There's just no getting around that.
I wasn't comparing the RAT to the Tim(my) or AMP Eleven. Just me trying to be subtly amusing about clones. This was the wrong thread to do it in as I know the argument is not about ~cloning per say. Sorry about that.
 

coldfingaz

Member
Messages
11,213
The so called other thread has a name "Lovepedal AMp Eleven offer- I bit,did you?" and I was the OP.
In the begining it was an innocent young thread with lots of hope and promise. One day the ugly people came and all the tone was sucked out of it, left for dead. The moderator saw the suffering and tone shed. He did the decent thing and put it out of it's misery. I think of it often but have moved on and am finding the tone elsewhere , but still worry about the fate of this thread.
It is growing weary and is in need of help but I don't know what to do.
Best of luck thread.


You make it sound like the big bad wolf came & blew your house down.

Relax. Everything's gonna be all right.
 

JDouglee

Member
Messages
1,959
I bit, and I'm looking forward to seeing if the Amp 11 will work for me for mid gain tones in backline situations. The clips don't sound too bad, I like the Josh Smith ones.
 

Toe

Member
Messages
793
Put the ethics aside for a moment. I asked about legalities. The law determines whether Manufacturer B can use the guitar body design originated by Manufacturer A. What does the law say about using a distortion pedal circuit originated by another manufacturer? I don't know. Can anyone else answer that?
You would have to apply for a patent first which I doubt would be granted as even a "new" stompbox circuit isn't really enough innovation. Also it usually costs alot of money to apply and maintain a patent. Wouldn't be worth it for a small builder. The advantage is that you wouldn't have to prove that Lovepedal actually copyed the circuit (which in my opinion is impossible, there is always a chance that two designers arrive at the same circuit) but the guy with the patent is always right, aslong as he can prove that both circuits are identical. But as mentioned above no patents = nothing illegal happened.
 

Hugo Da Rosa

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
2,386
When I read his calm, intelligent responses compared to "guru's" late night outbursts and rants it really put's things into perspective for me.
Just damn!
I'm trying to stay clear of the flames here, but I wanted to express some thoughts on this matter.

I understand that this has been a really unique and touchy topic here as of late and may have brought out a side of some people that they didn't want to see. Despite any facts that are already on the table in regards to schematics, it's hard to deny that when all of a sudden everyone on TGP is doing this to you: :brick , it's hard to not lose your grip and end up doing this: :bitch. Don't get me wrong, I do see how that particular reaction may have left some distaste in some peoples mouths and frankly, I also don't think that reaction was necessary - especially on a place like here. However, I do also understand that this has been too much and honestly, how many of us would have reacted differently if we were put in his shoes?

I'm saying this because I have spoken with him directly over e-mail these last few days and I've received politeness and great customer service. He responded promptly (being within 10 minutes of sending the e-mail) when I inquired about the status of my order and assured me that I would receive a tracking number that night - which, I certainly did. However, I contacted him again a few days later and said I really wanted to like this pedal, but it wasn't getting the same sound I had hoped for it to have (I really wanted the drive side to sound like my K already on my board). He kindly replied, "No problem at all, just mail the pedal back to me and I'll have a refund issued immediately." Without having even received the physical pedal and only a tracking number e-mailed by USPS, he already issued me a refund. I'm not sure what everyone else's definition of good customer service is, but this was outstanding for me.

My point is, he is a great guy that puts out great products and due to these extenuating circumstances, it brought out the worst in him. Honestly, if I was in his position, I don't know if I would have reacted much differently. I understand that how a builder presents his/herself on a public entity like TGP is very important to his reputation and again, that approach was not the best among his choices. But I think if we took the time to speak to these guys in question personally and not discuss it over a public forum, we might (and for me, I did) get a different perception.
 

digiTED

rock > talk
Messages
5,286
...I've received politeness and great customer service. He responded promptly (being within 10 minutes of sending the e-mail)...
I glad you've had a good experience. The one time I bought a pedal from him (last year), I had a VERY different experience. Turned me off forever. I've only been watching this current sh!tstorm because I don't have a TV or any old Jerry Springer episodes handy.
 

jpagey

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
4,119
"All or nothing" is merely a debate tactic stemming from portions of the Socratic method. The problem with this line of debate is that pointing out cognitive dissonance usually does more harm than good.

And anyway, personal ethics will always vary from person to person, and from situation to situation. Personal ethics also tend not to be very internally consistent, as evidenced by this thread and the others that were deleted. And that's okay, because ethics is as much emotion and feeling as it is logic and thinking.

I leave the ethics to the individual, where it belongs.

I'm more interested in the claims that cloning pedal circuits is illegal. And that using someone's else's trademark in marketing your own trademark is illegal. Based on my layman's reading of existing related law, I do not believe they are. But I'm open to reasoned arguments to the contrary.
and
Nobody sticks up for Dunlop or MXR or EHX because of all the Fuzz Face, Phase 90 / Micro Amp / Distortion+, and Muff / Small Stone / Small Clone (respectively) clones out there. Why not?

What's the most famous Fuzz Face clone out there right now? (you pick you own personal fav). Why is that clone okay and some other clone isn't?

Clone a Crybaby Wah? Coooool!!!!

Clone a Klon? You should die, thief!!!!11!!!

I just don't get that.
and
...Cloning (as it pertains to simple circuits, that is) is 100% legal. That's not an issue here.

...But as I said, this is an argument of morals. While you (rhetorically speaking) may find it objectionable to clone and commercially sell a branded pedal that is in current production, it is no way illegal to do so. In fact, it is quite celebrated on this forum, depending on who is doing the cloning and selling...

The ONLY legally protected intellectual property relating to pedal and amp circuits is the brand names, trademarks, etc. That is, all the stuff on the outside of the box. The stuff on the inside of the box does not qualify, according to current patent law, as non-intuitive and worthy of exclusive protection.

You may disagree with this on moral grounds, but the law says otherwise. The people who make amps and pedals are well aware of the laws that govern IP...or at least they should be...:munch
and
So, so true. Rat / Muff / 808 / Small Stone ??? Clone it!!!!!

Klon??? Kill the infidels!!! :mob


I've given up trying to understand the selective anger on this issue. It is what it is. End of argument.
hmmm....
 
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jpagey

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
4,119
or:

Yes it seems as though you are confused, you've mistakenly assumed that it is me who has the moral measuring stick, whereas in fact the exact opposite is true. I don't care if you clone TS808s, Suhr clone Strats, Landgraff clones Vex or JHS clones Klons, the more the merrier as far as I'm concerned. My one and only objection is people making out that someone cloning the Klon is tantamount to wearing a white hood and carrying a flaming cross, whilst merrily strumming their Tyler through a Lovepedal Eternity into their [insert latest Fender "inspired" boutique mojo amp of the moment here].

The way you started up your business seems very honourable, but to be honest that's not something I've questioned about you or anyone else.
 

fieldsroyal

Member
Messages
2,021
I'm sure the guru is a lovely guy who has great customer service - but he's like the kid who's been caught out with his hands in the cookie jar - and he needs to give those cookies back. Any of us with kids would make the kid apologise and give back the cookies! Give back the cookies guru!!!!!!!!!!!
 
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One thing I've been thinking of when reading this go down, it might have been brought up elsewhere in this thread as well:

The information of a more readily available clone (with some extra features as well) really doesn't do any favors to the original manufacturer.
 
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