Lower wattage Bassman clone

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs' started by FuzzOff, Sep 24, 2006.

  1. FuzzOff

    FuzzOff Member

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    Just wondering if anyone is making a lower wattage clone of the '59 bassman circuit? Does the Tweed Deluxe get in the ballpark at all? THanks!
     
  2. billyguitar

    billyguitar Member

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    I have old Bassmans and old tweed Deluxes. They are nothing alike. I rigged up a way to use an attenuator with my Bassmans. I also changed them to cathose bias. That probably cut 10 watts off and the attenuator made it quiet enough for any situation. You could do these things to a Bassman reissue or a 57 Twin reissue also.
     
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  3. mad dog

    mad dog Silver Supporting Member

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    Somebody should build a replica of the earlier, 2-input bassman. It's not the same as the later, famous 45 watter. At 35 watts, with earlier PI but still 4 Jensen 10's, it's more like the bandmaster. Sweet, clear, singing tone. Played an original model last year ... to date it's the best sounding vintage tweed I've heard.
     
  4. riverastoasters

    riverastoasters Member

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    If it's tweed, Louis Electrc can make it. Don't know if they do, but they could.
     
  5. Roe

    Roe Member

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    ask michael clark
     
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  6. maddtapper

    maddtapper Member

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    or Scott @ Vistalux amps
     
  7. maddtapper

    maddtapper Member

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  8. sdgvintage

    sdgvintage Member

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    the 5f4 tweed super is almost 1/2 a bassman.

    The circuit is a little different, in the super but it wouldn't be very difficult at all to build a 5f6 circuit into a tweed super.
     
  9. galibier_un

    galibier_un Supporting Member

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    I'm wondering how much the long tail phase splitter contributes to the Bassman's sound. Those smarter than me say that its unique sound is all about the output stage.

    Still, I have this burning temptation to adopt everything in the Bassman circuit, up to and including the PI into an amp with operating points that will allow 6K6's and 6V6's to be tried.

    Maybe throw a triode switch in for good measure? Dunno about a cathode / fixed bias switch while I'm at it :NUTS

    Any comments?

    Thanks,
    Thom
     
  10. GenoBluzGtr

    GenoBluzGtr Supporting Member

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    My SDG Proluxe gets close when using 6L6s. Still a bit less smooth than a Bassman, but at about 25 - 30 watts and with the earlier PI, it breaks up early enough to be a much lower volume "cranked bassman-like" sound.

    Toss in a alnico speaker and it's darn close for a small 1X12 amp. Push it with an RC Booster and it has similar punch.

    I doubt you can emulate Bassman Cleans with it, though, it's more like a smaller Tweed Bandmaster.
     
  11. galibier_un

    galibier_un Supporting Member

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    Tempts me to spring for the book analyzing the Bassman (http://www.pentodepress.com/index.html). Antique Electronics carries it. I would likely learn a lot ... if I did the heavy lifting and actually read it :cool:

    As far as vacuum tubes are concerned, all of my experience is in hi-fi. I have a lot to learn about guitar amps.

    Cheers,
    Thom
     
  12. Blue Strat

    Blue Strat Member

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    Victoria makes a 4 6V6 (as opposed to 2) tweed Deluxe which may put you in the ballpark. I think it's called the Victorilux. Also, the SDG Deluxe, mentioned above, that can take 6L6s may do the job for you.
     
  13. Gas-man

    Gas-man Unrepentant Massaganist

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    You're thinking of the Double Deluxe.
     
  14. Blue Strat

    Blue Strat Member

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    Thanks! Yeah, that's the ticket!;)
     
  15. CarlH

    CarlH Member

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    The Double Deluxe is nothing like a Bassman.

    It would be easy to build a lower wattage bassman. You could use the Deluxe Reverb power and output transformers and put them with the bassman circuit board (you may have to make some slight adjustments in the phase inverter values, but you could use the DR values as well). You would have a 22 watt bassman.
     
  16. galibier_un

    galibier_un Supporting Member

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    Kinda the lines along where I was headed. Another different and interesting approach is that of the Carr Sland 6V. He has two pair of 6V6's and can run either or both pair. One pair is cathode biased and the other is fixed bias. Different, but provocative.

    I'll likely stick with the simple appoach of downrating the iron and reducing the operating points.

    Cheers,
    Thom
     
  17. bluesbreaker59

    bluesbreaker59 Silver Supporting Member

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    Nothing wrong with a Vicky Double Deluxe though, they are highly recommended by me...:D

    Of course nothing wrong with the Bandmaster either...:D
     
  18. CarlH

    CarlH Member

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    Downgrading the iron would be the simple way to do it. Put a tweed bandmaster output transformer (with a 2 ohm tap) in a bassman chassis and use a 5U4 rectifirer (which is what the tweed bandmaster uses) and you have approximately a 30 watt bassman. You could even run 6V6 tubes in it for lower wattage (you may want to have the OT set up with a different impedence tap if you want to be correct on the impedance).

    Of course, the lower watt bassman will not sound as big as the real bassman.
     
  19. CarlH

    CarlH Member

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    You could also downgrade the power transformer to 175ma and lower the voltage down to 420 volts (most put out 450 or more). That would be sort of like having a Vibrolux Reverb type power transformer in it.
     
  20. GenoBluzGtr

    GenoBluzGtr Supporting Member

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    BlueStrat (Mike K) can help out here if I am totally off the mark, but I am of the opinion that it would really difficult to get the sound of a 6L6 amp by using 6V6s. Not that it wouldn't be a great sounding amp, but I can hear a huge difference between similar amps that use the respective tubes, a great example is the Deluxe Reverb and the Super/Vibrolux/Pro Reverbs. The circuit is pretty much identical except for transformers, some have varied tone stacks, and some of the circuit voltages (a byproduct of the transformer / rectifier differences).

    6V6s will sing, and can be very sweet, but don't get the tight bottom or guts that a 6L6 can bring. Sometimes both can be harsh sounding, but in much different ways.

    I think you would be best served to figure out a way to use a tweed-based circuit, a similar phase inverter, and by using things like cathode biasing, OT integration, speaker impedences, etc... figure out a way to bring down the power.

    A great place to start would be with Tweed Pros, Tweed Supers, Tweed Bandmasters, etc... they are sorta the middleground in my mind between the Deluxe and the Bassman/Twin.
     
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