Marshall 1960 A HW Cab.

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs' started by Red Planet, Nov 4, 2005.

  1. Red Planet

    Red Planet Member

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    Anyone played one? They have the G12H30's in em right?

    I'll be sticking it under a 1959HW.

    Pros/Cons?

    What would be a gooddeal on one?
     
  2. GAT

    GAT Gold Supporting Member

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    They have the new 55hz Heritage G12H30 speakers in them. I played one the other day, very tight sounding because the heritage speakers need to be broken in well. I think it will be a great cab once they are. I was going to get one but I've had an RSA23 head and 2x12 cab on order so I changed it to a 4x12 cab and I will put 4 Heritage G12h30 speakers in it that I pulled out of a couple 2x12 cabs I sold. I love these speakers. How much were you quoted on the cab? I can get them pretty cheap but shipping will be high.
     
  3. Timster

    Timster Member

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    does anyone know if the 1960 B HW cab is availible? Alll I see in stores is the angled cab.
     
  4. Scumback Speakers

    Scumback Speakers Gold Supporting Member

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    Had a guy come over to check out my old BW cab I have up for sale. He was on the hunt for some old speaker tone (no sale, he likes G12H30's more than G12M's). Said he'd just been through the 1960A HW cab and the 100 watt HW head with his other guitar player. Here are his impressions (not mine) he arrived at.

    Apparently they bought no less than four HW 100 heads between them. All four were very different in tone, and after trying to like them, they decided to take them back.

    As for the 1960A HW cab, he said they tried two each, and that they are very consistent...very bright...and punishing, to the point of being "grating" on your ears. He said the sales rep at GC was not happy when they brought them back for a refund.

    He didn't see the straight cab at any of the local So Cal GC's. Hope this helps.
     
  5. keith_t4e

    keith_t4e Member

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    They look awesome. I'm a litle weary of the bass speakers that are in them.
     
  6. keith_t4e

    keith_t4e Member

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    They make a very cool verticle slant 2x12 cab with the same 30 watt speakers in them.
     
  7. Timster

    Timster Member

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    I think the new marhsall 2x12 uses the standard G12H30 reissue, not the new, bass cone G12H30.

    Also, regarding the new 4x12 as being tight and bright - I bet with a proper speaker breakin period it'll sound a lot better..
     
  8. Scumback Speakers

    Scumback Speakers Gold Supporting Member

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    I talked to the Celestion rep about the "break in" period of the speakers last June. Due to the speakers being made to "new 1967" specs he figured they would take something like four months, played 3-4 times a week for 3-4 hours each time. The math comes out to 256 hours...assuming you get to play 16 hours per week.

    I can only hope to play that much. Something along the lines of 3-4 hours per week is my average around my work schedule. When I do the math at that rate, I come up with well over a year. FWIW
     
  9. Red Planet

    Red Planet Member

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    Nothing new is ever right , good, or even close for some folks. Who goes out and buys four heads and two of the cabs just to try out?

    I've played the real deals, I've played the reisssues, I've played everything in between and the head that I have sounds extremely gorgeous. Believe me if it sucked I'd take it back.

    That being said I knew from previous experience that the Head would suck a big loogie with the bright cap they install on the High Treble Channel. If your judging the head on how it sounds with that cap in there (unless you play it wide open all the time)(the cap is out of the circuit when the pot is dimed) your missing the boat intirely. It wouldnt matter if you played 50 of em. They are all gonna suck til you get that cap out of there.

    As far as the Cab goes. It will be nice to have an all wood metal handled Real Marshall Cab for a change. I was sick of the pressboard, plastic breaking handles, with cheap arse speakers in them.

    I have had a number of Marshall Cabs and the best one of them was the early Seventies B Cab that had two Jensen P12N's and two Green Backs. That cab was awsome in every way.

    The worst was a 1960 AV that had very cheaply made Vintage 30's in it. I couldnt stand to play anything through that cab.


    I think I would wrather have Green Backs in my Cab as the G12H30's. I might try some things after I get it. I like G12H30's for clean playing but dont care for them when really cranked.


    I would like to try some of those Scumags too.

    As far as the Price goes. I've been quoted $1080.00 out the door. The guy told me he had one on the way and I told him to hold it for me when it got there. He called me back yesterday and said it has arrived. I'll probably pick it up next week.
    :dude
     
  10. Timster

    Timster Member

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    looks like a job for the variac and some acetone. :)

    I saw the basketweave cab you're selling on Ebay - one question - does it have the original basketweave grill cloth?

    Ebay number: 7362039938

    http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?s=&threadid=109839
     
  11. Red Planet

    Red Planet Member

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    I think Vintage Gear is cool. Though I'm really tickled to be seeing the real deals selling new for much less. To me Four Grand for a Speaker Cab is just a little over the Top. Though I'm not a Collector.

    As far as break in one can allways hook a signal to the cab and let it run 24 - 7 for a couple weeks and Vwhala instant break in in a short time.

    Can we talk about these cabs and do the selling in the Emporium?
     
  12. Timster

    Timster Member

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    sorry about posting the ebay listing on the thread - just wanted scumbag to address the descrepancy between the ebay ad, and the ad he posted on the gear page - in the ebay ad he implies that the grillcloth is original, and in the gearpage add he says its new. What's true here??
     
  13. Scumback Speakers

    Scumback Speakers Gold Supporting Member

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    Someone who's trying to recapture the same tone they have in their other 4 old basketweave cabs, I guess! Seriously, the guy brought over a 67 Plexi JMP 50 watt, with a very aggressive tone (I liked it! LOL), and dimed it. Very nice tone, with that flute like/violin sound going on.

    As for the HW series, he did some fairly extensive research. He and his other guitar player bought the 18 watt combo and the 2061 20 watt HW head. Each of them blew the OT a few weeks after they got them, although they sounded great right up until they went "poof". Apparently Marshall must have the OT situation dialed in pretty good on those models, because he said the replacement OT's sounded just like the original Dagnall trannies (or clones?) that came in the amps and the new ones have held up fine.

    His issue with the HW 100 watt head was that even between the four heads they had (think he said 4), there was a wide variance in the tone they produced at the same settings between the amps. Something about one was very thin sounding, another was muddy, another was XX, etc. So while he thought the 18 and 20 watt amps were well done, and very consistent, he thought the 100 watt wasn't.

    Keep in mind, I haven't personally played the 100 watt HW head, but I have played the 18 and 20 watt heads, they're nice. However, as stated above, this guy and his bro bought a few to see if they could get the old tone without the big price.

    They couldn't, so he bought the 67 Plexi 50 watt instead. Like I said, FWIW. I guess someone else posted that EJ had to go through 4 or 5 to get the tone he wanted out of a new one, too, so maybe there are good ones (just like guitars), but you have to play a few to find 'em.
     
  14. Scumback Speakers

    Scumback Speakers Gold Supporting Member

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    What's true is that the cloth is NOS basketweave cloth I put on the cab to replace the cloth that the previous owner spray painted black. I got it from Marshall. I've had to revise that auction about 10 times...one guy wanted to know the exact ohm rating, is it 15 or 16 for the speakers, another guy wanted to know if the castors were original (they aren't, that was stated), another wanted to know if the logos were original (they are, verified by the guy who came to check it out last night, too, who had the 67 Plexi head), another person wanted to know the total ohm rating of the cab (16, for Pete's sake), yet another wanted to know the difference between the new HW metal handles and the originals and how did he know if these were originals, another wanted to know if the tolex was original, another wanted to know about the white piping, another the gold piping, another thought the wiring wasn't original (it isn't, stated that I thought, as I rewired it since the previous owner took out the baffle to spray paint the old cloth, talk about a mess of dripping paint, and effed up the wiring while he was doing it, resulting in a bunch of piece meal wire bits), I had to replace the screws on the jack plate, too, since one was missing, and the other one stripped. I've hit "revise auction" so many times in answer to potential buyer's questions that I'm ready to puke! BARF! LOL

    I can see yet another revision needs to happen to the auction (groan!), and as soon as I went to do it, in answer to your post, I see that someone put a bid on the cab already, so I've deleted the ad in the Emporium, and as soon as the coffee kicks in I'll go revise that auction yet again... dang... the 69 1982 cab buyer I sold earlier this year paid $4250 for that cab (with replaced cloth, too), and he just wanted the old cloth to be sent with that cab, but his big concern was the tone. Anyway, I can see another revision in my near future...anything I've left unsaid, Timster? Let me know.
     
  15. Red Planet

    Red Planet Member

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    If you have origional BW Cabs why bother with a new one?

    No one here is dimwitted enuf to think a brand spanking new Amp or Cab is gonna sound Identical to a 30 - 40 year old Amp or Cab are they?

    To qoute the Tonquest Report (David Wilson) in the Feb 2005 issue.

    "Marshall has succeeded in recreating the sound of the origional amps when they were new, which is to say that the hand - wired reissues do not pretend to capture the countless variations in tone that can occur as a 40 year - old amplifier and origional speakers age. Thats impossible, people, and if you want the softer, often quirky tone of an old amp with drifting component values, leaky electrolytics and dry and dusty speaker cones, buy an old amp."

    " The new Marshalls are strong, stout, jaunty, punchy, bright, and ballsy, just as a new amp should be. It's up to you to soften them up, and they will improve with time. "

    If you want a vintage amp/cab then get one. Not me I cant afford to spend that kind of money and the spend more money on it fixxin it up and keeping it going. I'm happy to have this oppertunity to have the real deal at a fraction of the cost.


    Too me Scumbag you might have a dog in this hunt so I take that into account. ;)
     
  16. Scumback Speakers

    Scumback Speakers Gold Supporting Member

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    I never saw that ToneQuest article, thanks for bringing that up. I know why the guy was looking at the new HW cab, he wants the old tone for less $$$, don't we all? I know I do. But there's also theories about the old cabs with the aged wood contributing to the tone, vibrated to hell and back, perceived mojo, etc. In any event, there are those who revere and chase down these old tones. I'm pretty happy with my own products, and when I get a cab design together to make a 4x12, trust me, I'll make a post in the Dealer's Emporium. In fact, the guy tried out the Scumbacks in a cab, and preferred them to the old G12M Pre Rola tone. However, I only brought down a smaller cab (new 10/12 extension cab), and he dimed his 50 watt Plexi through it and thought it projected better than the old BW cab, so it's all personal preference in my book.

    I was pleased to see an old 50watt Plexi put through my cab and have it sound great, with no "strained speaker tone" issues. Sadly, the guy wants to hear a full 4x12 with them next, so now he's thinking of pulling in one of his old BW cabs in an A/B comparison to my Scumbag 4x12 cab (Marshall recover).

    I was hoping not to have to move that demo cab...:mad: Oh well, I'm a victim of my own good products, huh? Guess that demo backfired on me a bit after all. I don't sell the BW cab, but I might sell 4 speakers instead. LOL

    As for a "dog in the hunt"...ahh, I don't think so... I don't make a 4x12 cab, and I'm not too thrilled about the available options of subcontracting that out (due to recent setbacks from my previous 4x12 supplier) anymore, so I guess I'll have to sit down to the computer, fire up Adobe Illustrator and start working on my 4x12 cab in earnest for my local cab guy to build. It's more expensive than buying one from one of the "commercially available cab makers", but at least I'll have full control over the quality and I won't have to deal with shipping damage, invoices sent to the client instead of me, and a bunch of admin related stuff related to damage claims. That's what I'm doing right now, and I'm not real happy with it. I'm not going to name the cab supplier, so don't ask, OK? Thanks!
     
  17. Red Planet

    Red Planet Member

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    Dog in the hunt.


    I know some guys that tried em and hated them but this BW I just happen to have for sale sounds really good. :D ;) :p





    BTW Scumbag I'm still waiting on the results of the 12AX7M Investigation you were doing. I bought some of those tubes the other day and they are doing the same BS. Motorboating. :mad:
     
  18. Red Planet

    Red Planet Member

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    BTW The TQR Article was refering to the 18 Combo and 20 watt Head but the same judgements can be used on the Hunards.

    Also as far as being inconsistent concerning the 100 Watt HW Head. To me that makes em even closer to the origionals. That was one of the Mystique things about the old ones wasnt it? It is supposed to be a High Dollar exact recreation of the origionals except when safety codes would not permit.


    I like this line of thinking. " The old ones were inconsistent from amp to amp. Many had a tone that is considered today by many to be wonderfull. The new ones are inconsistent and that isnt in keeping with the origionals.":p

    Yuk Yuk.
     
  19. Red Planet

    Red Planet Member

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    I like you Scumbag. I think your a stand up guy. I love to see the interest you have put into gear. I respect your opinion on occasion. I have dissagreed with you on occasion also.

    So take this with a grain of salt. Your selling speakers these days so any other speakers may not quite make the grade comming from you. You also are selling speakers (I'm guessing) to Amp and Cabinet Builders. You know the Booteek guys that make all the cool amps and cabs. So if the head sux in and indirect way they like you. :) They might even buy more of your product.

    What makes me say this is how you posted over the GTM's. I mean I've seen but kissing before but I was about to upchuck.

    I hope what I've said dosnt come off as an attack. I just question your objectivitty sometimes.

    Though let me make it very clear I like you.
     
  20. Scumback Speakers

    Scumback Speakers Gold Supporting Member

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    Sorry, I thought you meant for ongoing sales when you meant "dog in the hunt". I don't think the BW cab I have and the new HW cab are in the same category, since they're not the same speakers, one's old, one's new, etc. But if you mean from just a single sale angle, OK, perhaps. I was talking about an ongoing product offering.

    RE: the GT12AX7M's, I got replacements for the ones my circuit designer had that were bad. I tried the new ones, I prefer the Sovtek 12AX7LPS and the new JJ ECC803S for my amps, however, the GT's sounded good in a BlockHead 18 watt Firstborn combo I'm selling for a client.

    I think the GT thing is this: In an old amp, or a new clone that "exactly" mimics an old circuit, they work real well. I know that they are spec'd out to work in older amps (or clones) that don't have as much gain in their design. So, if you've got an old amp design/circuit/clone/whatever, they very well could work for you. Do they match the Mullard 12AX7? Sure, in spec, in tone, they seem to have even more gain than the Mullards I have that are originals, but then you get back to the whole "which Mullard?" which plate, etc. thing... not being an expert on tubes of the NOS kind, I've geared my amps toward producing the old tone with "current production" tubes. It's the only thing that makes sense.

    I'm not bagging on GT. Every manufacturer has "hiccups". I had four faceplate re-designs in two years, now I have 40 old ones I won't use...say goodbye to that $400... I'd imagine from the talk that Aspen & Miles and I had that some changes were due in their manufacturing or quality control, but you'd have to ask them. The fact of the matter is that I see new tubes fail about 40% of the time, and this same failure factor was evident in the GT/Mullard thing, too.

    Who do you point the finger at when they all have the same issues? The worst is still the EH 6V6 tube from my personal experience (15 out of 16 bad), so GT is no where close to them in terms of failure rates.

    I hated swapping tubes, but now that I have good ones, it's finalized. I don't use the EH tubes, and I prefer the Sovteks & JJ preamp tubes in MY AMPS.

    Your mileage, undoubtedly, will vary...just like the HW 100 watt amp tone, right? ;)
     

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