Marshall 4x10--Mumbly?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs' started by humbert, Mar 17, 2008.

  1. humbert

    humbert Member

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    About two months ago, I decided that I wanted to try 10" speakers for the first time. Everyone said they would be clearer and punchier and more distinct than 12" speakers.

    I picked up a Marshall 1965B for $200 on craigslist. I plugged it in, and although it's a very good tone, it's NOTHING like how people described it would be.

    It's really warm, almost muffled. The low end isn't too solid, either. Sounds GREAT clean, pretty good with amp breakup, and indistinct and mumbly with pedals (hotcake and LTD--which I use all the time).

    I miss the tightness of my 4x12. But not its coldness.

    Can anyone tell me how to get this 4x10 tighter? I think this cab has the Celestion G-35 speakers in it. I was thinking about trying something higher wattage, like a Ragin' Cajun?

    I love the size, warmth, and quietness of this cab. Just wish it was a little more clear and percussive.

    Thanks,

    Tim
     
  2. Rumblefish

    Rumblefish Silver Supporting Member

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    I'm not familiar with the pedals you're using,but there's no way 10's are gonna keep up with good 12's in the low end.I had a Marshall 4-10B cab for a while.
    I liked it but there's no way it can compete with a good 4-12 for overdrive tones(fuzz,,etc.)Now for medium gain dirty rhythm etc,4-10's can be a nice contrast.Good blues cabs.Those Celestions are some of the best 10's you'll find in my experience,but that's a matter of taste.
     
  3. FFTT

    FFTT Member

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    AlNiCo's would give you added clarity and improve the highs.
    A blend of Ceramic and AlNico would compliment each other well.
     
  4. Sparky6string

    Sparky6string Member

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    A 4x10 is great if you're coming from 1x12 combos, but if you're used to 4x12s it could take some getting used to. I admit I'm not familiar with the mumbly problem you're having, though I have a 1965a. The stock speakers have been switched for Celestion G10-50s in mine though.
     
  5. Leonc

    Leonc Wild Gear Hearder Gold Supporting Member

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    Never cared for the Marshall 4x10s myself. The two or three I've heard were too nasal and boxy sounding, IMO. I don't care for their speakers, by and large, and I think an open back sounds a lot more...well...open and bigger. Just my 2 cents...

    As for what I like, I dug my Ampeg VT40's cab design so much, I built my own copy of it. It's small-but-deep, front-loaded with Jensen C10Qs, not real heavy and sounds friggin huge!
     
  6. AL30

    AL30 Member

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    Have you opened it up yet? Ir sounds like you haven't. Before you right it off open it up and make sure the speakers are OK and that the cab is wired correctly.

    Also, what amp are you running and what impedance?

    And then... maybe a 4x10" isn't your cup of tea. You got a great deal on the cab so you shouldn't have any problem getting rid of it if you choose. But I wouldn't give up on it yet.

    AL
     
  7. dewman

    dewman Gold Supporting Member

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    try a Dr. Z 4x10. way way better...
     
  8. bosstone

    bosstone Member

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    Nothing is going to sound just like 4, 12's. I think mumbly is a bit of an exaggeration but I know what you are talking about. You can make a plywood rear baffle horizontally across the back of your cab that is 9" tall and 15" wide at the widest point. The top and bottom dimensions are cut straight and you can use semicircles on the two ends. That is what I did. It did take a lot of the softness and boominess out of the bass and made it more natural and tighter. It also made the cab a bit more efficient and it spreads the sound wider. It was very easy and inexpensive to do and you always have the original rear baffle if you don't care for the sound or want to sell the cab. You can also go to the higher power, Celestion G10S-50s that have a much more solid bass and later breakup. There is no getting to the same sound of larger cabs with smaller cabs though but I do feel that the Marshall 4 X 10" cabs sound more like 4 X 12" cabs than most 2 X 12" cabs and mover more air.
     
  9. Troubleman

    Troubleman Silver Supporting Member

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    I have a Marshall 1965B 4x10. I gave it glowing praise when I got it - I ran my Budda SD45 through it. With that amp running through it, I stand by what I said - turn the SD45 up to the point where the power amp starts to do its thing and the cabinet comes alive. It works well with or without pedals. That said, with other amps, its rating varies. It seems to like my Fuchs BlackJack21 well enough, but it seems woofy and its bottom end too loose with my 18-watt Suhr Badger (need to turn the amps bass control WAY down). I think those speakers square up and compress fairly easily, and as such pair well with very articulate, bright-sounding amps that don't have a lot of compression; that description fits the Budda SD45 quite well. I was thinking of porting the back of the cabinet, but I think I'll try different speakers first.

    jb
     
  10. fr8_trane

    fr8_trane Member

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    My 1965B fits your description...until you get the amp volume up. There seems to be a magic point at which the cab opens up and starts to breathe fire. Below the threshold it does sound a bit muffled but once you hit it its a beautiful thing.
     
  11. Gasp100

    Gasp100 Silver Supporting Member

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    "My 1965B fits your description"... who's 1965b? HAHAHA :YinYang

    Dude, just bought another VOX!!! Can you believe it? I spent all day researching the crap out of small wattage Fender BF amps (doing little to no work in the process) and I end up getting a Vox AC15HTHV head. The deal was too good to pass up. I'll bring it up when I visit, we can test through the 1965b as well.
     
  12. Griz

    Griz Member

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    Some people port the back of their Marshall 4x10's. It reportedly relieves the cab's inherent tendency to be low-mid "boomy" (or perhaps "mumbly" in the currently posted parlance...).

    I have a 1965B cab (G10L35 speakers). Love it.

    Keep tweakin.

    Yo.
     
  13. guitarcrazy2004

    guitarcrazy2004 Member

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    griz...i also own a 20 year old 4x10 and divided by 13 2x12 open back cab.....mumbley??? I use the 4x10 with my Germino and Gries 5-i bought from Gasp100.............I guess it depend on the amp head you are useing!!!:p
     
  14. guitback

    guitback Member

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    Not that there is never anybody who goes from 4x12 to 4x10, but I think most 4x10 converts are people who are used to 2x12 cabs... and most of those people are also talking open-back 4x10's when they become converts. Yes, I know there are a few 4x10 Marshall lovers, but most people who describe the 4x10 sound are thinking Fender Super Reverb (or maybe tweed Bassman). Just an observation.
     
  15. Troubleman

    Troubleman Silver Supporting Member

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    I came from a Super Reverb and Budda Twinmaster 4x10 combo background, but before that - 100 and 200 watt Marshalls through 4x12 cabs. The Marshall 1965 4x10 cab is decidedly in the 4x12 tonal camp - the closed back thump and sharp transient response curve and Celestion cabinet doesn't possess the open back airy tone of Fenders at all. I bought it because my back no longer allows me to lift the "depleted uranium" 4x12 monster cabinet that Jeff Bober (Budda) built. It's THE best 4x12 I've used, including Bogners, Marshall checkerboard 4x12 cabs from the early 70s, Mojo's, and even Budda's current 4x12. Unfortunately it weighs 50 lbs more than a Marshall 1960 4x12. The 1965B, when pushed, sounds closer to a 4x12 cab than any 2x12 I've yet tried, AND I can pretty much lift with one hand. If it weren't so awkward, I could carry it with one hand. A cab that light in weight that can get the sonic feel and about 75% of the sound (if pushed) of a 4x12 was for me pretty much a no-brainer...

    jb
     
  16. bosstone

    bosstone Member

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    I have had 3 Marshall 1965 cabs and have tired them stock with Celestion G10L-35s, same cab with a 9" X 15" custom mahogany plywood rear port (I'm the one who started this two years ago and I have another that has just two
    Webers (one Blue Pup ceramic and one Silver Ten ceramic). The other two ports are left open, quasi detuned style. The stock cab sounds great and I think most people would like it. For me personally and with my rigs, I felt it was a little soft and boomy but most people would probably be fine with that. I ported mine and now the bass is more natural and not as accentuated, it is more efficient, spreads the sound out wider and adds a little sparkle. The "detuned" cab has a very noticeable amount of sparkle and chime. I would love to hear it with a VOX or VOXish sounding amp. I will be getting a Crate V3112 soon, which is a bit VOXy and I can't wait to see how it sounds with this cab.

    As far as weight goes, you could put a top handle on it and easily cary it around like a not too heavy amp. They weigh under 45lbs. My MKIIC+ Boogie weighs 66lbs. and my Ampeg VL 503 weighs 83lbs.
     
  17. humbert

    humbert Member

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    thanks, guys. Especially Bosstone with those good ideas. I, too, had thought about pseudo-detuning this cab. I think I will try it with my 4x12 first to see if it takes out some of the weight and the coldness.

    Then, I'll give it a shot on the 4x10. Last resort is, I try and grab some new speakers for the 4x10. I'm thinking Ragin' Cajuns--something nice and TIGHT.

    P.S.

    Maybe "mumbly" wasn't the right word...more like mushy?

    When I used my overdrives into it, they just sounded indistinct and soft. I'm looking for a tight and responsive overdrive sound.
     
  18. amoodymule

    amoodymule Member

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    I have the 4 x10 cab and a matching 2 x12 cab with the speakers that came with them, when I have a smaller stage I use the 4 x10 cab, the sound is tighter for my ears. I use a Soldano HR 50, and of course the larger stages and rehersal gets the 2 cab treatment.
    I was considering opening the 2 x12 cab, replace the speaker panel to put 4-10's in and experiment with different speakers, all in all, to me I just have to tweek the amp to the room I'm playing, then I listen to the feedback/comments from the other guitarists that have an opinion
    (we won't go there:nono)

    ...this thred is got me considering keeping the 2-12's:D[​IMG]
     
  19. bosstone

    bosstone Member

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    What is it about this thread that has got you considering keeping the 2 X 12" not that cannot be a great way to go too?
     
  20. amoodymule

    amoodymule Member

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    ...just having the best??? of both, if I experiment with speakers as oposed to converting the cab over to the 4-10 side, all kinds of desicions and no real reason to change anything :D
     

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