Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs' started by Alchemist XP, Dec 31, 2017.
My thoughts exactly and the newer JCM 800 does have an Fx loop. I owned one and they sound good.
Does the Satriani model have a good reputation in terms of build quality? The demo video is pretty impressive. Seems to cover a lot of Marshall territory.
Look at the JVM 205 Head, or combo. Very versatile and covers all the Marshall bases with a very nice clean channel and Reverb for both channels. Really is a great sounding amp. The 4 button footswitch is very cool as well.
Yes. It addressed the jvm's significant problems of noise and feedback.
Would that mean that the JVM205 Head would likely have those noise problems you mention? Is that more an issue in the highest gain settings? That wouldn't be a big deal for me. At $800-900 slightly used, that's a pretty good bang for the buck amp if it sounds good.
JVM205H is huuuuuugely overlooked lately. With prices of other amps climbing, manufacture shifting to Asia etc...the JVM is a UK made Marshall with two great channels...great clean and all the ranges of Marshall gain you could want. New $1599...used under $1000. If I gig again I’d have to say I couldn’t imagine a better head for the money, New or used.
I think it’s just too easy, too practical that us analysis paralysis guitarists fear the fast and convenient commitment to amps like this and we say “ok well that’s perfect...now let me see what else is like it or better for more or less $”. All while JVM does it all. I’m talking specifically Marshall amps or Marshall type rock amps of course. Argh now I want one!! Hahaha
I owned the JVM 205H and wanted to dig it. However, I returnd the amp because it has real noise and feedback issues. There is excessive noise on the 205's lead yellow and red channels (med and high gain). I felt like I only could use 50 percent of the amp. For something as expensive as the JVM, I couldn't accept that limitation. While you may score one for a bargain price, you will experience that unpleasant side. (Maybe no return policy for a used amp?) If you read the Marshall forums, lots of guys modded their amps to help deal with those problems. How successful they were varied. (Modding the amp voids the warranty.) The Satriani was designed to improve the JVM (410, 210, 205, etc). The Satriani integrated chokes and noise gates at the expense of scuttling the digital reverb. The Satriani has a quiet FX loop, where you can throw in your favorite reverb pedal. Frankly, I'd consider a Friedman runt 50 over the JVM.
You can't go wrong with the Satriani head. I had to have the limited edition half stack and it costed me a pretty penny for my first Marshall
Appreciate all your posts here ... am learning a lot about Marshall ... Marshall 101 ... Am going to figure out a way to plug into a Friedman somehow ... No one carries them where I live.
I realize now my initial thinking that Marshall probably does Marshall better than Marshall copiers/wannabes was heavily colored by my years of experience with Boogie, (and to some extent, Fender) who definitely does Boogie better than anyone else. I appreciate all the advice to consider other potentially better Marshall alternatives
Boogie's are fab and some of them do nice British sounds. The rectoverb 25 head and cab, on pushed and vintage modes, does a hell of a British sound. A 25 watt head, which can drop to 10 watts, and 1x12 cab can be had for about $1100 or so used.
Between my TA-30 and Mark V have got my Boogie thing covered. A buddy of mine that's a long time Marshall guy thinks the Marshall side of my TA-30 is absolutely killer old school Marshall as he says many times, every Marshall sounds a little different ...
The TC-50 does look interesting though.
Part of what you're running into is that fact that classic Marshalls are the sounds of the 60's, 70's, and 80's. There were only a couple of amps in production at any one time, and it was a very evolutionary development year-to-year (small changes). Yes, every Marshall sounded different. They were mass-produced amps in the era of 20% tolerance parts and thus you could walk into a store and play five "identical" ones and definitely hear some difference between them. (Over time, some got better and many got worse too.)
Most of what you're looking for is probably those older tones from the older Marshall amps, so really a new Marshall just happens to have the same nameplate on it, but is in direct competition with other clone manufacturers trying to capture that same classic tone - generally with their own specific tweaks on it.
There's some arguments about a Boogie Mk V trying to capture the tone of a Mk II but most people tend to agree that modern Boogies do the best job of capturing classic Boogie tones. That's not so true for Marshall.
I've been in this same boat with Fender. I am by no means a vintage snob, but for years I tried to find a boutique or reissue that got the old school sounds of the original Fender blackfaces. I found some builders that got really close, and they made outstanding stuff (Redplate, Tone King, etc), but they weren't exactly the same. I never thought that any of the re-issues were even close. With that said, I also played a lot of very un-inspiring old blackfaces. My point? You almost have to go out, sometimes on a road trip or two, and try them in person. I owned a '78 Marshall 2204, so I know and love that sound. And yet, even though many on this thread are encouraging you to go with Friedman, I don't hear that Marshall tone in those amps. So while TGP is a great resource, it's also going to produce varying opinions. I don't live in a thriving area with a lot of places to try gear, but I have made some day trips to places that have the gear. The other option is to narrow your choices and find dealers that offer a good return policy. For the price of shipping, you get to try the amps out in your home.
I'd look into a JCM 2000 DSL50. Really great amps that are a bargain on the used market today.
I didn't say anything because I've never played a Friedman. However, discussion here and elsewhere keeps talking about them being dark, which is really the opposite of a classic Marshall sound. I've always assumed that means dark compared to the traditional Marshall sound, but it's definitely why you should try one out first hand before deciding.
I think the GC across town caries Friedman. I really should go try them out for myself. I'm curious about them, though I'll most likely just build my own Marshall next time around.
Marshall still has a sound identity. You either like IT or something similar. Marshall has an immediate fast response, open, bright, dry....
Like a strat makes you work to play it (in a rewarding way), a Marshall is kind of similar to that. Volume helps of course, and a boost will help you reach any kind of “perfection” you’re looking for.
For me if I want a Marshall, it’s such it’s own sound. As Vox is really it’s own. I’m not saying Marshall is the best and only amp maker worthwhile blah blah blah....but once you get something else, you have something else. And that’s fine!! Just means you found something you like more than a Marshall. Might be something different, or something you like more...But it’s not a Marshall. I am going on and on, I know that haha...just trying to make some sense of this.
One thing I feel strongly about though is that trying to get someone else’s take and mission to outdo or out-Marshall Marshall with a little EL84 amp is not going to happen...circuit-shmircuit...You can’t totally take the EL84 out of an EL84. If it’s not the Beatles, Petty, Byrd’s, etc....I just can’t hear or find a use for what I do or need. Edge of breakup with verb and delay...a little boost? Very nice. But for me that’s it. I’ve owned a ton, played em all. Don’t like em. Need EL34’s and that cuts-through everything kerrang grind thunky Marshall. Quirks and all.
Once you start talking $1200 and up on an EL84 Head or combo....might as well keep it simple and cheap and go with a Peavey Classic 20MH or Bassbreaker 15. Under $600 new and actually sound fantastic for home use and practicing! For the money savings and bang for the buck tone-wise...you’ll like em that much more. But then here we are...far away from an actual proto Marshall tone.
there are builders making Marshalls the way Marshall used to build them. The difference is, when you buy one, there is consistency. They all sound good.
Yes, there are builders doing their take on Marshall, hot rodded, more gain, smoothed out highs, bigger tighter bass, more features, loops, master volumes...
But there are great Marshalls being built that are replicas of every circuit. It's not rocket science, it's just a builder doing something that Marshall doesn't do anymore. Not even on their reissues. It's not cheap and if you look at the guts it's a work of art. A labor of love.
Two Notes Torpedo Live, then crank your Marshall until you smell dust burning. This video review is worth your time
Now as to Marshall amps...my first was a 410H I thought that beast had great tone. Got interested in owning a more vintage Marshall so I purchased a Metro kit amp, it blew the doors off the 410H. Then I scratch built one and it blew the doors off the Metro kit amp. Don't get hung up on it must be built by Marshall you can absolutely build a better Marshall than Marshall. Lots of Marshall clone builders out there to pick from, look inside a factory Marshall, look inside their amps, big difference. I like where Marshall is going on say the Astoria build quality, hybrid turret/PCB aka Randal Aiken, lead dress still a hair ball and too bad the amp sounds like ass.
Just my two cents worth.
Quick thank you to all of the super helpful advice ... I learned a ton in this thread. After thinking it through, I've made my initial decision on this and here it is:
I'm going to try the Silver Jubilee mini ... no risk ... return if I don't like it ... reasoning is I like the clips I heard, FX Loop, master volume, easily available, wattage is perfect, EL 34's, smaller head, good reviews online ... 20% discount should apply ...
If I don't like it, will return and try a JVM 205 head
Will make a trip before the 30-day trial(s) is over to Portland or Seattle (with my LP and Strat) to try out a Friedman Runt 50, a BE-50 and the JVM 205 AND the Mesa TC-50 (with EL34's)
Will make a final after the trip ... God, please give me buying restraint if I like the Mesa TC-50 best of all ... as this is a search for only ONE amp!!!!
As much as I like it, going to sell my Bad Cat Black Cat 30R as I already have two other EL-84 X 4 amps I like just a little bit better.
They are defiinitely voiced a little differently from traditional Marshalls. Some prefer it, some don't. Personally, the only Friedman i'd go for is the SS100.