Master Volume vs. non Master Vloume CLEAN to SCREAM with volume knob

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs' started by Tag, Nov 8, 2005.


  1. Tag

    Tag Gold Supporting Member

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    You hear time and time again how Non MV amps go from clean to scream with just the volume on the guitar better than MV amps. This is simply NOT TRUE! A MV lets you set the overall MAX VOLUME you need, then you adjust the gain from there. I took a Dumble ODS, a Trainwreck express, a Komet 60, a Bogner Shiva 6L6, a TwoRock Emerald Pro, and a TwoRock Opal and checked them SPECIFICALLY for this. NONE did it any better than the other. They were all about the same. Here is a clip of my Fuchs ODS doing just this. The guitar is a Fender hollow USA Tele. Straight into the fuchs. I cranked the gain up about 1\2 way, then turned the volume on the guitar down until it cleand up. There is no cap on the guitar to keep the highs when you turn it down, but it still sounded fine to me. To make it REALLY cool, the Max volume was still at house practicing volumes. I could obviously turn the MV WAY up to allow even more clean headroom. This goes to show how muck flexibility the MV gives you. Try THIS on a 50 watt Non MV amp! You will blow your ears and neighbors out!
    :p Anyway, I play a few open chords and strings, then just turn up the volume on the guitar and let it RIP! Totally not my style, but it WORKS. Top clip here...

    http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=271268

    Another thumbs up to Andy Fuchs and Howard Dumble for a MV that works like it SHOULD.

    VERY GOOD VERY GOOD!!!!
     
  2. Don L

    Don L Member

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    My Naylor Super Club 38s, which has the MV, does the clean up with guitar volume knob thing very well, too.
     
  3. Laroosco!

    Laroosco! Member

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    For me the best case scenario would be to have a nice non master amp that I could turn up to it's sweet spot. Then I could do all my adjustments with the volume knob. Most amps IMO don't sound their best when cranked to 10. There is usually a sweet spot between 4 and 7 on the volume knob.

    But since I'm not playing huge venues to thousands of people I am realizing that a nice 50watt MV amp is just what I need. I haave the volume on tap if needed but I won't be a slave to a loud amp.

    I love the Blonde Tremolux but I ffind that it does one thing great but doesn't have the headroom I need. When I bought it I needed an amp that sounded good turned up to 1:00. Unfortunately I'm ggoing fora gig where I will need an amp that can sound good quiet or loud, that can be cranked for a mean sounding OD or set to a nice loud clean.

    So while I know you will not agree Tag, the perfect amp for that IMO is the Matchless Clubman. So the search begins. I'm a litttle bummed that I will have to sell the Tremolux to get it though, but you don't like old Fenders either

    :D
     
  4. Scumback Speakers

    Scumback Speakers Gold Supporting Member

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    Tag, do you have a corresponding NON MV clip to compare yours to? All I see/hear is the MV clip.
     
  5. Shea

    Shea Member

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    I'm sorry Tag, but that is not jazz OR bebop.

    Shea
     
  6. Ed DeGenaro

    Ed DeGenaro Supporting Member

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    Except that clip shows clean to crunch, no scream in sight.
     
  7. Ed DeGenaro

    Ed DeGenaro Supporting Member

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  8. 8nthatK

    8nthatK Supporting Member

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    Wow...serious deja vu, lol! I was just about to post a few clips I did of a Two Rock I had a few years back in response to this thread. It was also illustrating the ability of the (Dumble) circuit design cleaning up with the V knob, and I'll be damned if Mr. DeGenaro didn't post the near exact same reply, lol...

    I suppose he's right of course, (Ed), it just made me laugh. In fact, I think I titled my original clips I posted, way back when, much the same way, “clean to scream”.

    Anyway, I agree Tag, those circuits clean up exceptionally well with just a twist of the knob.
     
  9. markp

    markp Member

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    Well tag ,I give you credit for the atempt,seeing how I remember you always saying that it is not possible.

    Now if you would crankit up so the cleans have some powertube body to em and your crunch goes to scream,then you will see how fun it is.
     
  10. 8nthatK

    8nthatK Supporting Member

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  11. markp

    markp Member

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    I would like to hear your clip too.
     
  12. Ed DeGenaro

    Ed DeGenaro Supporting Member

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    True, but for what it's worth I didn't claim it was...then again I don't think anything does clean to scream.
    Well one thing does my 2 amp rig...
    http://www.eddegenaro.com/audio/2channel.mp3
     
  13. ericb

    ericb Silver Supporting Member

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    I don't really care about the tone games and clean to mean demos but damn you're one of my favorite guitarists ever!! Get another touring band together would ya? Geez, although only about 30 of us saw Scott Henderson in Vermont last time I'm sure I could get gather together 30 musicians on my own to see ya LOL.. That means the club will have to provide the other 400 , but if they played your ****, that would be no problem.

    ERic
     
  14. waxnsteel

    waxnsteel Member

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    I'm sure some good MV amps do it. I've never playeda Fuchs, or any of those Dumble types. My Silverface Bandmaster didn't do it. In fact, I didn't like any of the distorted tones in that amp a whole lot. Usable, but never great. Cleans were very nice, but cranking up the channel vol, and keeping the master low didn't sound very good. Is this a characteristic of certain types of amps?
     
  15. Laroosco!

    Laroosco! Member

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    SF Fenders have really ****** MV's
     
  16. Tone_Terrific

    Tone_Terrific Member

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    2 aspects to this IMO.
    -Does the amp sound good cranked with the same eq as clean?
    -Does the amp sound good cranked at all?
    -How much volume range is required for the transition?

    OK, 3 aspects, but they're related.

    If there is such a thing as loud clean and quiet distorted form the same amp using the guitar control....well there can't be, right?

    So, the playing dynamic and level is not versatile enough for Joe Average guitar player in different situations.

    MV or not, channel switching or pedals is a necessity.
     
  17. Ed DeGenaro

    Ed DeGenaro Supporting Member

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    That's about all I draw here as well. :)
    But thanks for the compliment. Those a re some mighty big shoes to fill, especially with guys like Splatt, Wayne, Matte, etc... around here.

    FWIW, I know I will be back in NYC for some gig in the late Summer.

    Also I do like the tone games, I find it entertaining..so...I figured I see how a totally slammed and attenuated to hell amp does the clean-up...
    http://www.eddegenaro.com/audio/cleanscream.mp3
     
  18. 8nthatK

    8nthatK Supporting Member

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    Yeah, I agree.

    And like ericB said...either way, your playing is killer. Inspirational.
     
  19. 8nthatK

    8nthatK Supporting Member

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    I'll try to get that posted tonight...
     
  20. LaXu

    LaXu Member

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    I think pretty much any amp cleans quite well when you turn down the volume control, as long as you're not using supercompressed high gain tones that is. However, very few amps clean really well by just picking softer.
     

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