Matchless Clubman/Blackface Bassman Problems ...

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs' started by themusicboxstudios, Jul 30, 2006.

  1. themusicboxstudios

    themusicboxstudios Member

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    when i bought my clubman i heard it right next to my 66 bassman. The matchless was playing through an openback matchless 4x12 cab loaded with 2 blues and 2 celestion century neo speakers (sounded killer). The bassman was going through a different closed back marshall 4x12 loaded with 4 celestion heritage g12m speakers.

    At the time it was obvious that the clubman was way smoother, had a bit more sag. The amp had this beautiful high end and a nice tight bottom end (if you know what i mean ;) ).

    Anyways, i bought the Clubman Head, and now that i've got both amps home in the same room playing through the same cab (divided by 13 closed back diagonal 2x12 loaded with greenbacks), the bassman honestly seems like the better amp.

    The matchless' low end is now quite boomy (very annoying) and it just doesn't sound as balanced, the high end also seems a bit fizzy. The clubman doesn't take pedals as well as the bassman. And the clubman also just seems less versatile without the bright switches and what not. I do enjoy the reverb on the matchless and of course it would look amazing on stage (haha).

    The bassman on the other hand sounds perfectly balanced with the D13 cab. The high end is a bit harsh, but no more than the matchless. The bassman also sounds great for higher gain/marshally tones, which the clubman doesn't seem to do as well. The bassman takes pedals than any other amp i've ever played. The bassman also sounds better at low volumes for cleans on the middle pickup. The bright switch just balances everything out. The only problem i have with the bassman, is that it is quite a bit louder than the clubman which may be a problem when gigging. Also the i run i have to run the bassman with the treble all the way off to get usuable tones at gigging volumes ans sometimes i might like a little more sag, because the amp feels qite hard at times (it loosens up as you crank it)

    Anyways, now i've gotten myself into the quite the pickle. I'm not sure if i should buy a matchless cab and some nice speakers (blue/g12h30). Or if i should just accept that maybe the bassman is just a better amp for me.

    i really think the matchless will change a lot with the right cab and right speakers, and may end up being victorious over the bassman.

    I would just keep both amps, but they are soooo similar, that it would be pointless, i might as well by another amp with different tones available.

    thanks, jon
     
  2. Stormin

    Stormin Supporting Member

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    Sorry to hear that you're not so happy. I've been watching your threads since you thought about the Matchless. All I can say is that I came to the same conclusion with a Black Cat 30, and I wound up going back to Blackface Fenders in the end. Guess it's a good thing you didn't unload your Bassman. Other than that, no real advice that I can give you.

    Stormin!
     
  3. illinimax

    illinimax Gold Supporting Member

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    See if you can borrow/audition an open-back Matchless 2x12 cab. I have a DC30 and have run other amps through its speakers with great results. Sounds like the Clubman doesn't like a closed-back cab.
     
  4. Kiwi

    Kiwi Silver Supporting Member

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    Yup, it's the speaker cabbage. Try the Matchless 2x12, which ought to solve your complaints (at a small additional upcharge :eek: ).

    My Clubman Reverb delivers astonishing clear tight bottom-end with the open-back Matchless 2x12.

    So I can pretty much guess that with a closed-back cabinet, which tightens up the bass with any amp, it's going to deliver overwhelming thump.

    The Clubman's got a trademark steely top end, which another cab may or may not deliver pleasingly. The Matchless 2x12 sends it right into 3-D chime and swirl. But the Clubman into other 2x12s sounds unbalanced, and into open 4x10s sounds godawful (slicing top end, blowout flabby bass).

    Keep in mind the Clubman will probably sound best at 4 ohms, which the Matchless 2x12 is. I've run my '66 BF Bassman through the Matchless cab and it sounds terrific - because the Fender wants to see 4 ohms too.

    Look, no kidding: The Bassman is a benchmark amp, pretty easy to mate with speaker cabs including 4x10s, with a lot of versatility, and it doesn't have high-low voicing extremes of the Clubman. It will sound great with the closed-back cabs, 'cause that's how Fender mated it: closed-back 2x12.

    The Clubman has a unique sound - which you've heard, and loved enough to buy - and it can easily sound like poo with the wrong speakers and/or cab and/or ohmage. Our pal here, dave s, has also reported the Clubman is picky about pedals, and he gigs a lot. I'll verify the pedal thing.

    Before you bail on the Clubman, give it a fair trial with the mismatched Matchless speaker cab(s), at 4 ohms. Got a pal with a DC-30? Piggyback it and see if you hear what you heard in the first audition of your Clubman. I'll bet you will.

    Kiwi
     
  5. 1979

    1979 Member

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    Pretty cool rig you have, I have a clubman and a blonde bassman (which I just got). I have found both amps to compliment each other well, in that one can get to what the other can't, while they both have a similar feel and punchiness. At the moment I have a 30 watt matchless cab with the clubman and 2x12 blonde cab loaded with a weber p12n and blue dog for blondie. I really feel the clubman is better suited to open back cabs, however I don't think the matchless branded g12h30 is the best speaker to go with the clubman. I have found the clubman to pair up nicely with large voice c$oil/dustcap speakers. I'm thinking going with two weber -calis- a 4 ohm ceramic for the bassman in closed back cab and a 8 ohm alnico for the clubman loaded into an open back cab. the 1x12 cabs would be built by a local cabinet builder- but I'm not sure. I have also thought about tone tubbies. Nonetheless, I pretty happy with the sound of both as they are right now.
     
  6. celestion101

    celestion101 Silver Supporting Member

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    Hi,
    Let me know if you want to buy the cab you played it through. I just ordered a DC30 from Matchless (combo) so I won't need the 4x12. When you plugged the head in, you said "this is the sound I've been looking for", and I think a lot had to do with the cab (as matched with that head). I'll still look into the 2x12 for you (as discussed), but I thought I'd let you know about the 4x12. The Clubman is a monster tone machine partnered with the right cab.
     
  7. hw2nw

    hw2nw Member

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    Yo Jon, the Matchless/Bad Cat breed is pretty speaker-picky. Another vote for a Matchless cab, then you'll be feeling the magic again!
     
  8. vhollund

    vhollund Member

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    About the fizziness have you tried another type of preamptube in the first pos.?
    For some amps the 12ax7 EH sounds great there ...
    Like I have two amps where the first one 6V6 likes to have a NOS phillips 12ax7, in secund pos. ,the other one , el34, in the first and EH in the secund.

    Migth be something to try out
     
  9. sparkle**

    sparkle** Member

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    Don't forget the d13 cab is a "big" sounding 2x12...
    It also depends on what you want from this amp...
    the fender is 6l6 the clubman is el34...
    If you want a clean sounding amp that takes pedals to get your sound then take that into count.



     
  10. themusicboxstudios

    themusicboxstudios Member

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    For the main clean/slight breakup tone that i run both amps at ... they sounds almost identicle. The clubman is a bit quieter, the high end is more controllable, and has a bit more sag. Otherwise they sound extremely alike. When i turn on my MI Audio Blues Pro, the pedal just comes to life with the Bassman, but with the Clubman, the bass gets lost and it just doesn't sound as full. It is possible that maybe the Mi Audio just isn't a good match with the Clubman, but that's a shame because it is a great pedal. Then again ... it may be the cab that is causing the problems.

    Both amps have that basic tone there that i love ... the matchless obviously sounded a lot better with the matching cab.

    I think what i'm going to do is buy the matchless cab with the right speakers ... and still keep my bassman/d13 cab (killer match together). Then once i have all them in the same room with at least 3-4 pedals ... i'll make my decisions.

    Rick, I think that 4x12 might to big for me, but if that's what it takes to get the tone, i might consider it, shoot me a pm if you get a chance. I know that we both heard the same things the day i came to try out the Clubman, i when i said "that's about as good as it gets for me" ... i meant it. I'm gonna take my time and be patient, and hold on to both amps until i can give them a fair comparison.

    jon
     
  11. pirateflynn

    pirateflynn Supporting Member

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    Hi Rick,

    What color is your cab? 8 ohms or 16? Thanks!

    Ken

     
  12. themusicboxstudios

    themusicboxstudios Member

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    turquoise. just like my head :)
     
  13. GAT

    GAT Gold Supporting Member

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    Go for the 4x12, you won't look back. They don't take any more room on stage.
     
  14. pirateflynn

    pirateflynn Supporting Member

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    Yeah.....get it!



     
  15. celestion101

    celestion101 Silver Supporting Member

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    I'm leaving for overseas tonight and we'll talk when I return next week. If I can log onto TGP from there I will. Thanks! Rick
     
  16. themusicboxstudios

    themusicboxstudios Member

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    sounds good. have fun!
     
  17. michael.e

    michael.e Supporting Member

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    I do!!

    12mpg

    M.E.
     
  18. jeffersonhamer

    jeffersonhamer Member

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    I was worried about my clubman until I played it through an open back 2x12 with Greenbacks. Now I'm 100% satisfied. I can run it at that clean/just-about-to-break-up threshold with enough stage volume to get above our loud drummer. Now it rules.
     
  19. JES1680

    JES1680 Silver Supporting Member

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    Interesting thread. I run my clubman with the Matchless open back 4x10 and love it. The highs can get a bit much if you arn't carefull with the treble control, and guitar selection. I've run mine through open back 2x12 with blues, and 4x12 greenbacks, an ESS1x12. I like it best so far with the 4x10, but would like to try it with the mismatched 2x12.

    I also have a 68 Bassman, but I've converted it to a 1x12 combo with an Alnico blue dog and usually run yellow jackets in it, still prefer the Clubman, but its hard to argue the inherint goodness of an old Bassman.
     
  20. Moods

    Moods Supporting Member

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    +1 to the Mathcless 4X10 cab. My favorite cab with the Clubman. Seems less fizzy. It also sounds great with the older 2X12 mismatched combo... V30/Greenback.

    The Bassman vs Clubman comparison is definitely apple and oranges IMO and I don't think they sound the same in any way. I dig both amps a lot. Go with what ever works best with each amp. Both sound fantastic when setup correctly.

    The circuits in the Bassman and Clubman are soooo different it's not a surprise at all they don't work well with the same pedal setup. Clubman's work really well with a Pro Analog Dual Drive and generally sound better with very few pedals. The MI Blues Pro is the perfect pedal for a Bassman. Bassman's seem to work well with larger pedal chains. It's the nature of the preamp IMO.

    <M
     

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