Mesa Rectifier Badlander?

LCW

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
1,018
If I had to guess, the signal flow is probably V1-(V3)-V2-V4-V5. V3 is switched in and out for extra gain stages. Don't make the mistake of assuming that tube number is necessarily the signal flow.
From the online manual...

2A3EFAC4-18F8-4E96-9217-3392E23B62AD.jpeg
 

Axe-Man

Member
Messages
6,365
Ola: Mesa shipped out the very first 10 gain stage Rectifier for me to demo. Every preamp tube equals gain. They call it BadLand Mode. You only go there if you have adequate tonal protection.

Chug chug chug...SQUEAAAAAAAL...chug chug chug...SQUEEEAAAALLLLL...

*turns guitar volume down and 4 noise gates off*

Well, @#&! me, that definitely chugs...and squeals like a slow roasted Swedish Gris. BURRRRRP!!! Claps hand. My job is done. 8 seconds, that’s an Ola record for gains stages, noise gates and fictional content by Axe-Man lol ;)
 

TP Parter

Member
Messages
1,153
The onus is on you to prove everyone wrong, when you’re the dissenting viewpoint. I’ll wait.
My onus is just fine, thank you. I wipe well, and wash at least once or twice a day. The great thing about knowing the truth is not having to prove anything to anyone. I know what I know, if you are too lazy or disinterested to investigate, then that's your call. I don't have time to engage in the internet debate club. I'm almost 50, have been playing since I was 15, and been a gear nerd since I was 18. Me spending the time to search and quote doesn't really further my knowledge in any way. Once again, feel free to look up Mesa's patent application. It is in the back of my '96 Tremoverb's manual I have stashed in a box in my garage along with a bunch of old Mesa catalogs. So I don't have to google it. I spent more time in the toilet with them then most teens spent in there with their dad's old copies of Hustler.

Just think how much more satisfaction you will derive in the end to have that "Haha gotcha!" moment if you look up the original materials yourself to prove me wrong. Lmk what you find.
 

Guitarjon

Member
Messages
1,789
These new Badlanders look really cool although I haven't heard a really good demo of one yet... For now my 'old' 3-channel 2000's Dual Rectifier will do just fine. I love that huge, raw and untamed character of the 3-ch Recto in particular. The Badlander doesn't seem to have a lot of gain and in the videos it kinda sounds a little bit too boxy. However, I'm sure it sounds great in person. Hopefully one day I'll get to try one. Until then I'll stick with this beast:

 

TP Parter

Member
Messages
1,153
Early rectos were all over the place. I was able to try one when a tech brought one back from tour to share with a friend of mine and I played it at his place, I play a Road King, use the EL34 on vintage mode into a cabinet with Greenbacks. It's just about the least "Recto" tone you'll hear come out of one of their amps.
Yeap, been running my Tremoverb with EL34's since '98, and have mostly sworn off V30's since around 2001-2002. That is where the icepick in the ear sizzling presence mostly comes from, but coupled with the harsh crossover distortion that arises from the cold bias when running 6L6's at most volumes it is really is a balancing act trying to get the stock amp to sound both articulate and fat and warm at the same time the way you can with an old Marshall or Ampeg wound up and crunching. I just cannot fathom going back. It really is a totally different sounding amp stock compared to how I run it. For me EL34 + ss diode + Bold is my power section configuration. If I am wanting more sag/bloom I will pull 2 tubes, and a rectifier tube, and switch to tube rectifier (I run it with 5AR4/GZ34's). If I want it super slinky and vintage sounding, then I will flip it to spongy.

I run it through a variety of speakers, have a 4x12 loaded with 55hz Heritage G12H's and Fane AXA12's that sounds like heaven. Just not a bad sound in that cab and it works for most all clean to classic rock/hardrock tones, and for a fatter metal tone with some warmth and smear to it, but still plenty of chug too. Have another loaded with two EVM12L's, a Fane Studio 12L and a modern Crescendo (prototype I scored off Ebay), and that one brings all the modern metal chug and '80s thrash tones with uber crystal clear cleans. Through them both at the same time it sounds huge, getting the best of both cabs.

I also have a 2x12 loaded with 2 alnico EV SRO's, that manages to sound as good as the two other cabs combined, just not quite as loud and less spread/throw obviously. They really are the epitome of what a guitar speaker should sound like to me. Roaring midrange, silky smooth airy treble, and perfectly tuned lowend, wih all the ferocity, articulation, and punch of my EVM12L's but just a little less assend, and all the midrange kerrang of a good British speaker in spades. Anything from Jazz to Pantera sounds incredible through them. So far they are the only speakers I have heard that totally satisfy me no matter what style I am playing without blending something else in to make up for a perceived deficiency (they have none).
 

teofilrocks

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
4,262
Yeap, been running my Tremoverb with EL34's since '98, and have mostly sworn off V30's since around 2001-2002. That is where the icepick in the ear sizzling presence mostly comes from, but coupled with the harsh crossover distortion that arises from the cold bias when running 6L6's at most volumes it is really is a balancing act trying to get the stock amp to sound both articulate and fat and warm at the same time the way you can with an old Marshall or Ampeg wound up and crunching. I just cannot fathom going back. It really is a totally different sounding amp stock compared to how I run it. For me EL34 + ss diode + Bold is my power section configuration. If I am wanting more sag/bloom I will pull 2 tubes, and a rectifier tube, and switch to tube rectifier (I run it with 5AR4/GZ34's). If I want it super slinky and vintage sounding, then I will flip it to spongy.
That's interesting. I've never tried EL34s in my 2-channel DR, mostly because the manual said they enhance upper harmonics and extremely high frequencies. So I figured that would result in more sizzle, not less, and left the 6L6s in. I still have a pair of the Mesa branded =C= EL34s. I should pull the center tubes and then try these to compare. But EL34 + silicone diode + V30 sounds like it'd be way to fizzy for me - and I like bright amps. I use an IR of a V30 Recto cab currently, it sounded best to me with 6L6 + tube rectifiers.
 

LCW

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
1,018
That's interesting. I've never tried EL34s in my 2-channel DR, mostly because the manual said they enhance upper harmonics and extremely high frequencies. So I figured that would result in more sizzle, not less, and left the 6L6s in. I still have a pair of the Mesa branded =C= EL34s. I should pull the center tubes and then try these to compare. But EL34 + silicone diode + V30 sounds like it'd be way to fizzy for me - and I like bright amps. I use an IR of a V30 Recto cab currently, it sounded best to me with 6L6 + tube rectifiers.
Really liking the tube rectifier mode on my Tremoverb. Gave it a try after watching a bunch of Leon Todd Recto videos haha. Gives it that "Recto character" IMO. Makes it "feel" good under the fingers. :D
 

starbelly

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
1,710
New video by MESA

Man this demo sounds wayyyyyy better then the others. These are the metal tones I’m looking for (especially the latter crunch tone, and the first crush tone). I’m glad to see that that they’ve effectively retained the multi watt pushed clean mode by cranking out the gain in clean mode; sounds really nice!
 

SleepingSG

Member
Messages
437
Do
These new Badlanders look really cool although I haven't heard a really good demo of one yet... For now my 'old' 3-channel 2000's Dual Rectifier will do just fine. I love that huge, raw and untamed character of the 3-ch Recto in particular. The Badlander doesn't seem to have a lot of gain and in the videos it kinda sounds a little bit too boxy. However, I'm sure it sounds great in person. Hopefully one day I'll get to try one. Until then I'll stick with this beast:

dont forget basic business. Mesa makes rectifiers. Mesa sells rectifiers. The market Then has rectifiers and sells rectifiers. Mesa needs to compete with the used market so they then need to offer something ‘new’ and ‘better’ to make people buy new rectifiers.

The badlander Imo seems Iike a step down tech wise in every aspect but the cab clone IR. You have one rectifier instead of two for starts, you have 3 tones instead of 4.
Basically simplicity all around.
I said it earlier and I’ll say it again having spent more time looking at this thing.

If you have a ‘vintage’ Rec why spend money for less? And give up an appreciating piece of soul?

If you have a multi-watt why spend money for less?

If you have A mini or a rectoverb why spend more for more weight?
This rectifier seems to be a modern metal aimed amp for a small subset of people.

every guitar Mesa has two pieces. Randy’s technological advancement and Dougs tone wizardry.

I feel that aside from the cab IR this rectifier hasn’t brought enough ‘new’ to the table. Tracking rectifiers, effects loops, multi-watt, dybawatt, single ended/push pull, simulclass, etc.

tone wise I admit it sounds good from a compressed YouTube recording. A rectifier that doesn’t punch you in the face with bass and presence is a good premise, but it’s $2200 and how many of us here with that kind of budget are chugging so fast that you NEED to pass on a proper 3 channel rec but also don’t want a mark?

I’m just not seeing the hallmarks of a successful Mesa here.

positive though,
Cab Clone sounds great, tone in general is good, though I think it only is ‘better’ for dropped tuning and 7-8 strings. With the Fillmore and Triple Crown and 3 channels though I’d think most everyone outside of that subset would choose something else.

2 mirrored channels a la Fillmore or Lone Star is great and somehow makes the rectifier more appealing as you can explore low gain sound which have always been under used .

I like the direction Mesa is heading
 
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PaisleyWookie

Member
Messages
8,455
My onus is just fine, thank you. I wipe well, and wash at least once or twice a day. The great thing about knowing the truth is not having to prove anything to anyone. I know what I know, if you are too lazy or disinterested to investigate, then that's your call. I don't have time to engage in the internet debate club. I'm almost 50, have been playing since I was 15, and been a gear nerd since I was 18. Me spending the time to search and quote doesn't really further my knowledge in any way. Once again, feel free to look up Mesa's patent application. It is in the back of my '96 Tremoverb's manual I have stashed in a box in my garage along with a bunch of old Mesa catalogs. So I don't have to google it. I spent more time in the toilet with them then most teens spent in there with their dad's old copies of Hustler.

Just think how much more satisfaction you will derive in the end to have that "Haha gotcha!" moment if you look up the original materials yourself to prove me wrong. Lmk what you find.

Another one for the ignore list, I guess.
 
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TP Parter

Member
Messages
1,153
That's interesting. I've never tried EL34s in my 2-channel DR, mostly because the manual said they enhance upper harmonics and extremely high frequencies. So I figured that would result in more sizzle, not less, and left the 6L6s in. I still have a pair of the Mesa branded =C= EL34s. I should pull the center tubes and then try these to compare. But EL34 + silicone diode + V30 sounds like it'd be way to fizzy for me - and I like bright amps. I use an IR of a V30 Recto cab currently, it sounded best to me with 6L6 + tube rectifiers.
With the 5U4G rectifier the bias is still a bit on the cooler side, though not as cold as with the 6L6's. I have no problem with harsh upper frequencies. There is definitely more upper mid emphasis, a slight reduction in bass extension, and the treble is slightly more compressed and smoother, but beautiful and rich in harmonic swirl. This is to be expected, as 6L6's have extended bass and treble that morphs into a rich low midrange emphasis when driven hard, whereas EL34's have more upper midrange emphasis in general.

The key though is running the tubes in their optimal bias range, which only really occurs on the original 2 channels running EL34's with either 5AR4 rectifiers or the ss rectifier and bold power. This gives the amp overall a juicier, warmer, and clearer less fizzy character.
 

teofilrocks

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
4,262
dont forget basic business. Mesa makes rectifiers. Mesa sells rectifiers. The market Then has rectifiers and sells rectifiers. Mesa needs to compete with the used market so they then need to offer something ‘new’ and ‘better’ to make people buy new rectifiers.

The badlander Imo seems Iike a step down tech wise in every aspect but the cab clone IR. You have one rectifier instead of two for starts, you have 3 tones instead of 4.
Basically simplicity all around.
I said it earlier and I’ll say it again having spent more time looking at this thing.

If you have a ‘vintage’ Rec why spend money for less? And give up an appreciating piece of soul?

If you have a multi-watt why spend money for less?

If you have A mini or a rectoverb why spend more for more weight?
This rectifier seems to be a modern metal aimed amp for a small subset of people.

every guitar Mesa has two pieces. Randy’s technological advancement and Dougs tone wizardry.

I feel that aside from the cab IR this rectifier hasn’t brought enough ‘new’ to the table. Tracking rectifiers, effects loops, multi-watt, dybawatt, single ended/push pull, simulclass, etc.

tone wise I admit it sounds good from a compressed YouTube recording. A rectifier that doesn’t punch you in the face with bass and presence is a good premise, but it’s $2200 and how many of us here with that kind of budget are chugging so fast that you NEED to pass on a proper 3 channel rec but also don’t want a mark?

I’m just not seeing the hallmarks of a successful Mesa here.
Of course Mesa needs to continue selling amplifiers. But not every new amplifier that arrives has to have "more". Part of the reputation Mesa's developed over the last 20 years or so, especially in the Rectifier line, were amplifiers with lots of options and switches. I mean, just look at the Road King series - ooff. Some people see the front of a Mark V and say "No". Having 3 channels with 3 modes each, plus multi-watt, plus other tone option switches - its cool, but it can be a lot. This amp seems to be a lean, mean hard rock and metal machine.

Here's the thing, if people want a 3-channel Recto with all the bells and whistles, they can still get a brand new one. Mesa still happily sells them. But if you were hoping for a pared down straight-ahead Recto, you've now got an option where the option didn't exist before. But becuase it's Mesa, it still has something extra - the CabClone IR. Which is the future of amps, btw. Could they have done a 50W version w/out the IR for $1,600? Sure, and it's very possible they do, just like Suhr did the non-IR version of the PT15 afterwards.

Just becuase this amp seems targeted at a smaller subset of Mesa players, doesn't mean it isn't appealing to a larger base of not-yet Mesa players.
 

teofilrocks

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
4,262
With the 5U4G rectifier the bias is still a bit on the cooler side, though not as cold as with the 6L6's. I have no problem with harsh upper frequencies. There is definitely more upper mid emphasis, a slight reduction in bass extension, and the treble is slightly more compressed and smoother, but beautiful and rich in harmonic swirl. This is to be expected, as 6L6's have extended bass and treble that morphs into a rich low midrange emphasis when driven hard, whereas EL34's have more upper midrange emphasis in general.

The key though is running the tubes in their optimal bias range, which only really occurs on the original 2 channels running EL34's with either 5AR4 rectifiers or the ss rectifier and bold power. This gives the amp overall a juicier, warmer, and clearer less fizzy character.
My 2 channel has EH 5U4GB rectifier tubes in it. Seems like the 5AR4 is the in-between for that and the silicon diodes. I'll start with EL34s first, since I have them.
 

SleepingSG

Member
Messages
437
Of course Mesa needs to continue selling amplifiers. But not every new amplifier that arrives has to have "more". Part of the reputation Mesa's developed over the last 20 years or so, especially in the Rectifier line, were amplifiers with lots of options and switches. I mean, just look at the Road King series - ooff. Some people see the front of a Mark V and say "No". Having 3 channels with 3 modes each, plus multi-watt, plus other tone option switches - its cool, but it can be a lot. This amp seems to be a lean, mean hard rock and metal machine.

Here's the thing, if people want a 3-channel Recto with all the bells and whistles, they can still get a brand new one. Mesa still happily sells them. But if you were hoping for a pared down straight-ahead Recto, you've now got an option where the option didn't exist before. But becuase it's Mesa, it still has something extra - the CabClone IR. Which is the future of amps, btw. Could they have done a 50W version w/out the IR for $1,600? Sure, and it's very possible they do, just like Suhr did the non-IR version of the PT15 afterwards.

Just becuase this amp seems targeted at a smaller subset of Mesa players, doesn't mean it isn't appealing to a larger base of not-yet Mesa players.
I love Mesa, and I also don’t like collecting and storing amps. So I sort of look at this from the point of view of only keeping one amp. I would *love* cab clone IR In my LSS.
I wish Mesa all the best personally, I’d love this to a be a hit and spawn a decade of music.

I think can clone IR actually is Mesa licensing a product from Two Tone? Explains the price. Makes me also question if we will see it in every amp going forward. That’s a tough pill to swallow after all. Sort of like the bass amps paying out to B&O for the power section.

At $1650 I’d see these being a very compelling package. As for the non-Mesa players? Let’s hope so, but I kind of think maybe those players are too young to afford this amp and would opt for a cheaper Mini rec or another brand out of financial necessity.

I kind of see the Fillmore Cali Tweed, Triple crown and now this as darts and they are hoping for a stick.
If none of them are a smash hit I doubt they last long. They will go the way of the Stiletto or Trans Atlantic or Prodigy. Good-great amps that couldn’t find a market.

As for the switches? I get it 100%. Some people want to plug and play. That said, after you play and record with one amp a lot you start to realize the value in minor Tweaks like that even if they don’t matter if you’re just doing it for fun.
 

starvingartist

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
709
These new Badlanders look really cool although I haven't heard a really good demo of one yet... For now my 'old' 3-channel 2000's Dual Rectifier will do just fine. I love that huge, raw and untamed character of the 3-ch Recto in particular. The Badlander doesn't seem to have a lot of gain and in the videos it kinda sounds a little bit too boxy. However, I'm sure it sounds great in person. Hopefully one day I'll get to try one. Until then I'll stick with this beast:

This dude makes such great demos
 

teofilrocks

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
4,262
So I sort of look at this from the point of view of only keeping one amp.
Ah, well that's an important difference. For a one-amp scenario, 2 vs 3 channels can certainly make a difference - depending on how many tones you need to cover. Since I don't have to lug my amps around, multiple amps is almost a given for me.

I think can clone IR actually is Mesa licensing a product from Two Tone? Explains the price.
Suhr does their own loadbox and there's still a $500 difference between the PT15-IR and non-IR version.

Let’s hope so, but I kind of think maybe those players are too young to afford this amp and would opt for a cheaper Mini rec or another brand out of financial necessity.
I've given up on predicting what young people will spend their money on whether they have it or not, lol.

I kind of see the Fillmore Cali Tweed, Triple crown and now this as darts and they are hoping for a stick.
If none of them are a smash hit I doubt they last long. They will go the way of the Stiletto or Trans Atlantic or Prodigy. Good-great amps that couldn’t find a market.
Certainly possible. My Mark III is great and that model lasted 14 years before it was replaced. My Electra Dyne is equally great, wholly underrated, and lasted for 5 years of production. And the Mark IIC+ was gone before you could blink. Go figure.
 




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