Discussion in 'Playing and Technique' started by neve1073, Dec 31, 2005.
Anyone else have this book? This is a really fun book to play through.
I don't have any of the books, but I do have the series of articles that he wrote for Keyboard magazine based on those concepts. A great way to generate TONS of ideas. I really need to pick up both volumes. Anything Mick does is worth its weight in gold. I also want to pick up his book on Factorial Rhythm. Anyone who hasn't, check him out:
I was wondering about those deluxe prices. Doesn't he know that some guitar players who would like to learn voice leading from a master might not be able to afford $50. for one book? I hope it's a hard bound volume at the very least.
It's not as bad as Wayne Krantz's Improvisor's OS, which is like 12 sheets of 8.5"x11.0" paper cut in half and bound together with a cheap plastic binder. He charged $25.00 plus shipping for that one. I know that people like Mr. Goodchord and Krantz need to earn a living too. But some of the prices things in the music world go for strike me as oddly cynical.
That's true. They are expensive. I only own the one book for that reason. But it's not at all a method book per se, imo, though there is method to the madness. For me it's a book I will come back to every few months and spend some time with and come away with new ideas for songs or song parts or new ways to navigate thru familiar changes.
Wayne's book is more than worth the $25. I took a lesson with him that cost $100. The book covered every question I thought to ask him plus infinitely more. You aren't paying for volume here. You're paying for a path to information. That he worked for many years to organize. That you get for $25...
I like and use both the Goodrick and Krantz (80+ pages, spiral binding) books. I always thought I was paying for the content.
I like the binding in both books -- it makes it easy for them to lay flat when open. Very appropriate design, when you think about it.
I used to study with Krantz and I know that his book has everything we covered in lessons plus a bunch of stuff I didn't improve enough for him to cover personally with me (no fault of his -- I couldn't always put the time in). Krantz and Goodrick are both amazing, gifted teachers. Neither of their books is a lick library, however, and buyers expecting one or some other paint-by-numbers approach will certainly feel disappointed.
$50 and $25 bucks respectively are bargains IMO.
There's a little tiny book for golfers that gets similar criticism. It ain't the book -- it's what you do with what's in it.
Okay, I was wrong, instead of 12 sheets of 8.5"x11" paper, it's 23 sheets of 8.5"x11" paper printed on both sides and folded in half.
I don't know if my gripe is a matter of expecting a pre-set amount of word/example content (or a lick library) as it's a matter of knowing the value of books, regardless of content, based on my life buying books from many different fields and bound in many different ways.
My expectations for a book are loosely based on the following: Ted Green's Chord Chemistry cost me like $12.00 and is arguably as valuable a book as either of the two books I mentioned. If it was $40. I would still buy it. I'd be mad about having to pay that much for it, but I'd still buy it and be happy to own it. Hell, I could buy every book Ted Green wrote and study them for the rest of my life on the price of the first Goodrick book. Jerry Coker's Improvising Jazz is another small book just crammed with extremely valuable, condensed information. It cost me $10. and I felt like a thief for paying that much for it. Same goes for Scott Henderson's Videos. I bought them both new for $20. and they're practically a lifetime's worth of study. Is what Krantz is offering of so much superior value to what these guys have written? What about all Don Mock's books or Joe Diorio's books? Not one of them over $20.
The content of the Krantz book and the approach it expounds is without a doubt of high value. However, had I known this approach (expounded within in a few paragraphs), I would have saved myself $25. and just written a shell script to generate 85% of what's in this book by calculating the different numerical permutations of the chromatic scale, instead of paying WK a premium to generate them for me.
It's just my opinion though. I don't really buy into the whole "this or that celebrity/music hero's words are worth more than what everyone else charges for books with similar content" view. It's kind of an elitist and exclusionary approach to the sharing of knowledge, IMO.
Just for the record, there are no words in Goodrick's book. There are no licks either. In fact there is no notation, chord diagrams or tab. I'm not recommending that you buy it, but I will venture to guess that there are no other books "with similar content."
That's good to know. I'm actually planning on buying them, regardless of my misgivings about their price. I'm fortunate enough to be in a position where I can afford to take a chance on $85. worth of books. (It wasn't always the case that I was so fortunate, though I might have benefited from the material.) I get the feeling too that I will like them quite a bit. In fact, I'd be highly surprised if I didn't.
I've not seen the type of content in the Goodchord books, but have you read any of Joe Diorio's creative/right brain guitar stuff? It uses lots of shapes, patterns and sketches and very little, if any, actual guitar/music notation. It's stuff that could just as easily be applied to sculpting as it could to playing the guitar or the harmonium.
I would argue that you have the proportions a little mixed up.
Bruce Saunders has 6 pages of Mick's book on his site:
For those who want a taste.
You'll hate it. The Voice Leading text is 1" thick w/plastic binding, and exhaustively lists voice leading permutations.
I've seen that, along with his very concrete analysis of Giant Steps; he's one of those teachers who can bridge the intuitive and analytical.
EDIT: Deleted reference to unfounded Internet rumor
(Apologies to JD if I'm not remembering the story accurately.)
I heard he [Joe Diorio] had a stroke some time ago. Hopefully he has recovered. What's this about a cult??
If 1)you could borrow a copy of goodrick's almanac and 2) are able to understand what he is doing, then you actually could save yourself the money and write it all out yourself. But the amount of time it would take would be tremendous! Assuming your time is worth more than, say, 25 cents and hour, you're better off buying the book.
Have a look at that link someone posted above with a few scanned pages from the book b4 you buy it. It's a "real book" sized tome of various permutations of chord scale voice leading based on the diatonic, melodic and harmonic minor scales.
I'm curious about his book on rhythm. Can someone tell me a bit about it?
I reserve the right to like it regardless, like I do the Krantz book, but to complain about its price.
I'll let you know in a few days when I get it with the other two. Be warned, I have preconceived notions about the value of books, so my opinion probably doesn't mean very much.
How "new people" can be construed as joining a cult is beyond me. But hey! Isn't joining a cult what people in California do? w00h00!
One man's cult is another man's church. For me, I can't tell either appart. I do hope Joe is happy with his new direction.
AMEN to that.
...and how 'bout that voice-leading. the double drop 2 cycle 4 stuff is wild! :BOUNCE