MIDI New Years Resolution

Discussion in 'Recording/Live Sound' started by Azfarrier, Jan 2, 2018.

  1. Azfarrier

    Azfarrier Silver Supporting Member

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    Well one of my New Years resolutions is to learn midi. I've gone my whole life not knowing it but it just seems like there is so much that can be done whether it be with some of the midi controlled pedals or while recording or performing live that it seems like I'm just missing out on some possibilities. My question is do you guys have any suggestions on how to go about this? Any good books, videos, on-line classes etc. Any help is appreciated and happy new year to you all.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2018
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  2. denmalley

    denmalley Supporting Member

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    I sorta dipped my toe in last year but wouldn't mind coming along for this ride.
     
  3. B Money

    B Money Member

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    It's a deep dive if you want to learn it all. I've learned enough to get my guitar setup and lighting rig under MIDI control, but there is a whole 'nuther level when it comes to keyboards and studio automation, etc...I've been using MIDI, rack preamps, and multieffects units in my guitar rig for 20 years.
    It's conceptually simple, but for the average guitar player it's another language and way of thinking, but once you get your brain around it you'll probably love it.
     
  4. Azfarrier

    Azfarrier Silver Supporting Member

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    No suggestions from anyone?
     
  5. tjontheroad

    tjontheroad Silver Supporting Member

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  6. GCDEF

    GCDEF Supporting Member

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    MIDI is just a communication protocol that lets two musical instruments talk to each other. "Learning MIDI" by itself doesn't make a whole lot of sense. It would help to have a specific application in mind and the devices you want to talk to each other. Then you'd want to know what commands the receiving device is expecting and figure out how to make the sending device transmit them.
     
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  7. denmalley

    denmalley Supporting Member

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  8. Crowder

    Crowder Dang Twangler Silver Supporting Member

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    I started getting my head around it a little while working with e-drums on a recording project. Getting some data into Logic and then using the MIDI editor to manipulate it helped me understand the parameters and what the machine was looking for.
     
  9. Hurricane

    Hurricane Member

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    :cool:
    Youtube it .

    I do midi synth guitar with a Roland GR33 guitar synth module it has FX.
    My T.C.Helicon Voice Live 3 X has midi controllable stuff as well as FX

    My Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 has midi in/out like the Roland and T.C.Helicon
    When you hook all this up to the interface and computer you have a awesome
    production chain that can be controlled by your DAW via you computer .

    Guitar FX stomp units can be sync'd with your computer's DAW too , any brand
    make or model because midi is midi no matter what the unit or instrument :aok.

    EZ :

    HR
     
  10. Guitar Stu

    Guitar Stu Member

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    I jumped into trying to understand how midi works while trying to use my beatbuddy to work with my amp which can change presets with midi inputs. I was eventually able to use the information I got on using midi here to use a setlist program on a tabet to change presets on keyboard for a band mate so when selecting a new song on setlist maker it would automatically change the preset sounds on his keyboard instead of him having to manually input it each time.

    The thing I found most helpful was the program MIDIOX and a usb midi in out interface.

    I will try and give some info on what helped me to understand what I was doing. I hope it helps and doesn't confuse you more.

    My basic premise was to use one piece of gear to change preset's on my midi enabled amp (Blackstar ID60). In my case using beatbuddy to change presets in a preprogrammed song. The same could apply to using a midi foot controller such as a Behringer fcb1010.

    I found the Midiox program for PC. What I could use this for was to see (monitor) what midi events (or midi messages) were being sent and recieved. I could plug the Beatbuddy into the MIDI IN on the usb midi interface and the the usb into my pc. With the MIDIOX running I could see what midi information I was receiving from my Beatbuddy. From memory it ended up it was sending midi clock events and midi note events that correlate with each time a drum part triggers. The Midi Clock events can be sent to a midi enabled looper and it will ensure when using a looper the loops will be in perfect time with the drums from the beatbuddy. The midi note events can be sent to another device like say a PC DAW or keyboard and used to trigger drum samples in that device.

    For Dummies Section (this was me trying to learn):
    This is my understanding. There are a number of different types of MIDI events that you need to get your head around. An event is when a midi command is sent or triggered. In general an event will have a address say that will consist of a channel number (1 - 16) and a midi value (either be 0 - 127 or 1 - 128)

    These are the basic midi events I understand or use.

    - Midi Note Event
    For the stuff I was doing this was to trigger drum samples. This is what is used in DAW when programming a midi backing track. If you were to download a midi backing track and look at it in a DAW you would see seperate tracks for each instrument. Each instrument has it's own channel number (drums normally on channel 10) and if you open that track in a piano roll you will see the midi note events. A bass drum might have midi number 37, snare drum midi 39, closed hihat midi 42 etc. Numbers go from 0 to 127.
    So everytime my when my beatbuddy was playing and a bass drum hit sounded it sent out a midi note event with a value (or address) of "Ch-10 Midi-37" and I would see that come up on MIDIOX. If I had my beatbuddy midi out plugged directly into a piano midi in it would send that midi note event to the piano and the piano would have a sound corresponding to that value (not nessacarily a drum sound it could be any thing) and it would play when received.

    - Midi PC event (Program Change)
    This will be a midi event for example used to change say presets in a midi enabled amp or say keyboard presets (eg on my keyboard preset 00 is Grand Piano, 01 is Bright Piano)

    - Midi CC event (Continuous Controller)
    Im not sure how to explain this one and am unsure of how to use it but I like to think of it like a volume pedal. It send an event that has a value for a paramater for like say volume. It will be a value between 0 - 127 with say 0 being minimum volume and 127 being max volume. Can't help much further on this one.

    There are other events like midi clock etc that I don't understand.

    For the stuff I was doing like controlling my amp, the Beatbuddy would not send Midi PC messages so I ended up using MIDIOX to simulate it. I could send a MIDI PC event using MIDIOX. When I looked into settings on my Backstar Amp there was a section where I could select which channel (ch 1-16) the amp would receive messages on. I could select say channel 6 on amp software. Then to send a change preset to the amp I would send a Midi PC Event (Ch 06, Midi 6) from Midiox (the midi out on usb interface connected to midi in on amp) and the amp would change to preset 5. This is an example where midi is sent with values 0 -127 but my amps presets don't have preset 0, it starts at 1 - 128 so any value sent will trigger preset with value -1.
    The channel numbers enables you to connect up multiple devices on different channels. With say a floor midi controller pressing one button on the pedal can send multiple Midi Events so you could send a Midi PC to say your amp on one channel and a Midi PC to keyboard on a different channel so the presets on both would change at the same time.

    I ended up experimenting with setlist maker on an android tablet which will send out midi messages when selecting different songs. I could get it to send out a Midi PC Event that would select the corresponding song on my beatbuddy and I wouldn't have to bend down and change song manually. And also got it working for keyboard for band mate.

    Hope this can help you out
    Cheers
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2018
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  11. Azfarrier

    Azfarrier Silver Supporting Member

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    Thanks so much Stu for the detailed response. It has helped a lot. Thanks.

     
  12. soundchaser59

    soundchaser59 Supporting Member

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    Some things have a center value instead of a minimum and maximum. Pitch Bender is an example. 64 is centered, no pitch bending. Values less than 64 bend the pitch flat, over 64 bend it sharp.

    The message usually consists of 2 or 3 bytes. The receiving device needs to know what kind of message it is..... Patch change, note on-off, cc continuous controller change, volume, sustain pedal on-off, MTC midi time clock, etc. It needs to know what channel is intended for 1-16, and what the value is supposed to change to.

    Keep in mind that the midi baud rate is around 32kb, so it could potentially transmit around 4000 bytes per second.

    The easiest thing for me was the midi guide book that came with my kx88 keyboard. You could probably download it in PDF if you Google it.
     
  13. GtrGeorge!

    GtrGeorge! Member

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    Been dealing with it for years. For me,anyway, ya learn what you need to know as u go. I dont think u need more, actually. Plug in and start the curve, Be easy on yourself, it can be frustrating, But you can achieve alot. Buy extra midi cables, btw You'll need em.
     
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  14. Papanate

    Papanate Gold Supporting Member

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    Check out this article: What Is Midi

    Check out this article to sue out what Continuous Controllers can do
    for you. They are your commands...change banks, turn off, volume
    control etc...they help you shape what ever it is you are playing.

    And Ask Audio had the answers to what your next question probably is;
    Everything You Need To Know About MIDI Messages But Were Afraid To Ask

    And then most keyboards and sound generators adhere to the General Midi spec.
    The GM Spec is old school - what sound is attached to what number. For example
    channels 1 - 8 are piano sounds. That way when you go from one keyboard to another
    generally channels 1 - 8 will be pianos. Consistency forced upon the wild west of early
    midi protocols.

    There is more - your best bet is to jump into it and record your midi sequences.
    Then fool around with them to see what happens. Then get a bottle of Bourbon
    to drink - because it's very tedious and boring IMO.:D
     
  15. griggsterr

    griggsterr Supporting Member

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    I am only a very basic midi guy myself, And this was one of the most useful things I have seen posted on TGP in a while.
     
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  16. Digitalman

    Digitalman Member

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    I don’t mess with midi unless I have to.
    Right now it’s looking like I need to delve into it a bit. For Xmas I got 2 new midi toys, a second Logidy UMI-3 pedal and an M-Audio Keystation 49. I had already gone into the second Logidy pedal to make sure they weren’t sending the same C3, D3, E3 commands. Then I realized while playing the new 49 key controller, that it was sending out the same midi notes.

    So I need to reprogram both Logidys to send notes outside the range of the 49 key. Oh well, new gear, new messes to iron out.

    But for midi in general, I only try to understand what I need to.
     
  17. Tone_Terrific

    Tone_Terrific Member

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    There is a whole realm of deep editing, sysex, LSB, MSB, hexadecimal etc., and it is all rather like trying to do reg-edit, or DOS, in a PC.
    Lots of devices can follow this info. Few casual users know or need to know.
    Learning MIDI. Be careful of what you wish for. Even editing piano roll in a DAW is a time sucker once you dig into it.
    Know what your gear can do and what you would like to do with it. Implement MIDI control only as required, imo.
     
  18. jb4674

    jb4674 Member

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    IMO, it's the biggest PITA I've ever encountered. The guy that invented those bulky midi plugs should be kicked in the genitals.
     
  19. Mikhael

    Mikhael Member

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    I'm having a big fight with MIDI right now, trying to get my Behringer FCB1010 MIDI pedal to control my Chauvet Obey40 light controller. For some stupid reason, light controllers use Note On commands instead of Program Change. The FCB1010 sends a Note On command when you step on a pedal, then a second Note On command with a velocity of 0 (corresponds to Note Off) when you release the pedal (just like a key on a keyboard). The lights come on with the proper scene when I step on the pedal. When I take my foot off, the lights go black! Neither Behringer nor Chauvet have been any help (Chauvet thought "velocity" meant the speed of transmission on the MIDI buss!), and I'm going nuts trying to figure out a workaround for this.:mad:
     
  20. denmalley

    denmalley Supporting Member

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    Get an uno prom, they will allow for "stompbox mode" (latching footswitches).
    http://www.fcb1010.eu/
     

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