Mike the amp? Different amp?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs' started by kenoflife, Sep 13, 2008.

  1. kenoflife

    kenoflife Supporting Member

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    I have a bit of a dilemma on how/which amps to use. I could use some help from the pros...

    I originally started (this round) with a '69 Vibrolux - (Blackfaced with Weber 10150 and 10150T) which is pretty loud, and then acquired a Goodsell Super 17 112 combo , and also have another 12" greenback in an avatar closed cabinet that matches the goodsell.

    I've been very happy for 2 years using just the Goodsell - along with my 52RI tele and Heritage 335 and a slew of boutiquables (Klon, BJF, etc.).
    I found the coloration perfect for playing gigs with my band - kind of rock, folk, bluesy, reggae, female-vocal oriented stuff.

    The thing is when the venue gets large enough I want to mike it so I can still get some cleans and not be that little box in the corner - so I use an e-609.

    Especially when outdoors I feel like the amp starts having a hard time getting good cleans - and somehow like miking it is putting too many signals thru the mains and seems a little tinny (I pull back a little of the mid-hi EQs for the e609). We often don't have anyone else doing sound -
    though I can go out with my wireless and check it out. We have some really huge Mackies that are supposedly good mains.

    I feel like my choices are:

    1. Running another cabinet from the Goodsell and spreading the sound
    to the other side of the stage- though the volume is lessened that way
    thru the combo and I seem to hit dirt sooner- if I find the sweet spot, maybe it would be fuller sounding when loudness isn't an issue?

    2. Use the Vibrolux, while playing outside, on its own because it has more 'iron' and more clean - even though it doesn't sound as 'musical' it might translate better?

    3. Put a box with stereo outs at the end of the pedal chain and split the signal into both amps on left and
    right - have to deal with balancing their volumes and lugging all that extra weight!

    4. Just mike the Goodsell and don't worry about it losing some of its sound quality by having to be with all those other sounds in the mains

    :NUTS
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2008
  2. walterw

    walterw Gold Supporting Member

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    your solution is at the other end of the chain. if your PA can't handle having guitar in it, it's not enough PA for outdoors anyway.
     
  3. midnightlaundry

    midnightlaundry Member

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    I think it's the mic. Super Cardioid's have a narrow pickup pattern, so you're only getting a slivers worth of your speakers tone.
     
  4. kenoflife

    kenoflife Supporting Member

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    I think you might have a point about the mic....
    maybe its the e609? Better off with digging out an old SM57?
     
  5. midnightlaundry

    midnightlaundry Member

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    I've tried them both, and like the 57 better.
     
  6. kenoflife

    kenoflife Supporting Member

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    of course everyone seems to have an opinion between those 2....
    it could be the positioning of the e609 could be better - I always thought
    it was less sensitive than the 57 - but maybe the supercardiod thing doesnt work to capture the fullness of this particular amp? Its a thought.

    Appreciate anyones experience on adding a separated cabinet to a 18-w amp and how that works out....
     
  7. RichardGoodsell

    RichardGoodsell Member

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    57 up close, nearly touching the grill, just off the center of the cone. With a good PA (and a good sound guy, or at least someone in the band who knows how to run it...) you won't get lost in the mix - assuming everybody else's stage volume is sane.
     
  8. kenoflife

    kenoflife Supporting Member

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    Hey there!!!

    Just the man I wanted to hear from!

    I'm not getting lost in the mix - just some of the tone is!
    Have you tried the e609 in comparison w/ the 57 with your amp?

    What's your thought on having that second cabinet going on....
    the drummers like getting a little of me in with it near (or pointed at) them -
    but then there's a shift in the sound of the original combo that cuts
    back on my ability to get louder cleans - kind of have to rework it for micing.

    And, in a smallish venue (say indoors) - where loudness isn't an issue -would you think that using the second cab on the other side of the stage from where my (your) combo is would be a good alternative to micing just the combo?

    By the way, your amp has made my life better!
     
  9. Rod

    Rod Tone is Paramount Silver Supporting Member

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    I'd run the Goodsell and the Vibrolux together all the time...not A/B'd ...try it... 2 disimilar amps can sound amazing
     
  10. drbob1

    drbob1 Silver Supporting Member

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    What speaker is in the Goodsell? One solution if you can find a sound you like is a more sensitive speaker. As an example, I recently tried out a 15w Matchless head. With a 212 cab with alnico Weber 30w Blues it was loud. With a 210 cab with Blue Pup 15w it was REALLY loud. Thru an alnico JBL, well, I sure didn't need that much volume. So, if you can use a blue or a JBL or EV SRO or something similar, you can double your apparent volume with no change in the amp. A pair of 112 cabs, decoupled or ported (no back wall, so outdoors the sound from the back of an open cab just goes away, losing you 1/2 your volume), one aimed forward the other diagonal for the drummer, should do the job...
     
  11. kenoflife

    kenoflife Supporting Member

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    Gotta G12H Celestion in the combo, a Greenback in the 112 closed cab.
    I wouldn't change the speaker in the combo - its too great!
    And really its loud enough for what it is, especially with a Klon it still holds it well.
    But in an outdoor, unmiked setting maybe the Vibrolux (or both) is better.

    What I'm MOST curious about at this point is how spreading the sound across the stage (with the 112 cab on the other side) compares to supplementing the sound of the combo by micing it thru the mains. We're talking at a small club level now with this question....
    OK I'll start a new thread with that one...
     
  12. RichardGoodsell

    RichardGoodsell Member

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    The G12H is the best/most efficient (100dB/1w/1m) choice for the S17...
    How many, if any, monitors/mixes?
     
  13. kenoflife

    kenoflife Supporting Member

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    Different gigs, different situations....

    mostly wondering now if running that separate cab is a good way to spread the sound across the stage (and using it does change the amplitude/tone of the Super17) vs. micing just the Super17 (no cab) and putting it in the mains....There seems to be different philosophies from the other folks who are involved with setting up the deal!
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2008

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