MkIV: The Neglected ToneBender?

Discussion in 'Effects, Pedals, Strings & Things' started by PhuzzphayzZ, Jun 30, 2020 at 2:20 AM.

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  1. PhuzzphayzZ

    PhuzzphayzZ Member

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    Never hear any love for the MkIV. In the Big Shootout, I liked it the least,... but, what does that even mean?:dunno

    Surely someone Holds the MkIV SecretKey! Do tell...
    :munch
     
  2. Bluesful

    Bluesful Supporting Member

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    Doesn't Josh from JHS (who has an amazing collection and experience) say that the IV is his favourite?
     
  3. openbar

    openbar Silver Supporting Member

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    Unless I've been lied to, aren't the III and IV basically the same thing? Or do you mean MkIPOINTV?
     
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  4. songtalk

    songtalk Member

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    The 3, 4, park sound, rotosound, Buzzaround and Dizzytone are all more or less the same. A diode. 3 germanium transistors. Some filter caps. Some resistors. They are all slightly different from eachother and each one is different from the next BUT truth be told, there's WAY more overlap to these circuits in terms of sound than anyone would ever care to admit. They do tend to share more with their immidiate family than their close cousins but basically they are the same circuit made a little thicker, a little thinner, a little louder, a little softer. No two originals ever came out the same way. And they all sound a lot alike.

    Same can be said for Fuzz Face, Vox Tonebender, Sola Sound Mk. 1.5 and ge FY2. They sound different but are identical circuit paths with slightly different values.

    As to the Mk.4 popularity, it's incredibly popular. Analogman even makes one! Macaris sells the Sola Sound Mk. 4 by the truck load. It's well regarded by famous guitar players (Ed O'Brien? Johnny Greenwood? Thurston Moore? Kevin Shields? Maybe I feel like these guys dig em). Check out the Red Noise Stoneblender for a fuzz that really capitalizes on this topagraphy and makes something special.

    I like the dizzy and Buzzaround because instead of a cap blend/Big Muff tone stack, you get some cool bias points. All they needed was a master volume and that's easy enough to add! The 3 and 4 and Park and Roto are all very very similar. Volume, tone, sustain. Very much the precursor to triangle Big Muff. They each have slightly different overall EQ profiles and many people like to mod these specific variants for more output than stock because you usually gotta crank up the old ones.

    The reason they aren't often offered each in their individual glory, is because builders know that if they offer a couple of the above, they basically are offering all of the above. Where as, the Mk.1, Mk.2, Supa Mk.1, Zonk and Vox and Sola 1.5 each are VERY different from eachother so you see all of those more often.

    *edited for clarity/post coffee
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2020 at 10:55 AM
  5. Jimpage

    Jimpage Member

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    Interesting stuff @songtalk

    All I can say is I enjoy my sunbender mkIV and soul bender and they sound enormous!
     
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  6. BearBryan

    BearBryan Member

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    My Sunbender MK IV is one of the best fuzzes I own.
     
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  7. frisco

    frisco Silver Supporting Member

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    I regret the years I waited through before buying a Sunbender, great pedal!
     
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  8. PhuzzphayzZ

    PhuzzphayzZ Member

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    wow, thanks for THAT!!!

    ok, so Buzzaround IS in that bracket... I guess they all are... I think I see now... Buzzaround seems like the most 'open', aggressive version of this circuit?...

    So, to the untrained ear, the dif between, say, Mk1, and Mk4, would be Gain... the noob would say "the 4 is louder and sounds moar gritty"... I mean, they're not gonna call one a Phaser and the other a Delay... a noob will just hear the most basic difference

    ok, so Mk4 kinda dovetails into the 1st BigMuff historically...

    all very interesting
     
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  9. songtalk

    songtalk Member

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    Diodes....tonestack.....different functionality....but powered by 3 germanium transistors doing stuff together to make sound. They have less in common than the Big Muff variants which are actually all the same circuit. But more in common than a lot of things. The Buzzaround can be tuned many ways and so can the mk.3 and mk.4. They can have more or less gain I suppose!
     
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  10. splatt

    splatt david torn / splattercell Gold Supporting Member

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    MkIV variant:
    RedNoise Stoneblender
    swipe left for video #2

    iPad recordings

     
  11. PhuzzphayzZ

    PhuzzphayzZ Member

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    ACK!!! Those Filter snarls are spectacular!!!! I WANT!!!

    ahhh, your Toane in that 2nd Vid... is that a guitar rolloff or just the pedal's Toane?

    With some makers, the 'Tone' knob is actually the Bias, or they also have a 4th 'Bias' knob... I think I've seen?

    ToneBender is the only Fuzz not represented in the Phuzzocracy here... but I don't want to do anything until I KNOW WHY I'd rather get 2, or 3 Transistor model...

    My GAS tells me that if I get something with "vintage transistors", I'm gonna want to get 3... just cuz...Moar.

    Yea...pedals bring out my 'Logical' side...yea..yea... that's the ticket! LOGIC says MOAR!!!
     
  12. Rob303

    Rob303 Supporting Member

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    Love my Sunbender mkIV. Way less behavioral with the added gain when compared to a Fuzz Face. Sounds great with vibe and add in wah and delay and it’s full on bluesy psychedelic rock.
     
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  13. PhuzzphayzZ

    PhuzzphayzZ Member

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    So, I'm seeing in my head that Mk3-4 was taking 'proper Fuzz' as far as it could go... and the BigMuff says, 'Hey, you can do THIS, also',... but, after that,... (Foxx?)... that's IT in the FuzzWorld until Zvex?

    I mean, in a nutshell...?...

    I have to keep saying to myself, 'It's STILL a Fuzz, it hasn't turned into a Phaser or Delay... don't confuse yourself lil buddy'...
     
  14. splatt

    splatt david torn / splattercell Gold Supporting Member

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    AnalogMan MkIV:

    in both clips, the MkIV is always on:



    this one's sorter, and might show some more range of the pedal:
     
  15. Tiny Montgomery

    Tiny Montgomery Supporting Member

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    What is “proper fuzz?” It’s not like “fuzz” is a proper electronic term. It’s all clipping.
     
  16. ultrasun

    ultrasun Member

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    The only mk4 I have is the one from Proanalog Devices (blue version)... From what I heard on vids, it's pretty far from a Buzzaround, as the Buzzaround seems to provide an overwhelming wall of fuzz. My mk1s are closer to Buzzarounds actually, as far as open and gainy are concerned.
    But I think the Proanalog is a variant of some sort (Ge/Si combo). It does everything from light overdrive to fuzz. It's great for a singing lead tone, but otherwise it's quite "polite", it doesn't bring instant chaos to the party...
     
  17. splatt

    splatt david torn / splattercell Gold Supporting Member

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    well no, i don't think so.
    zonk, super-fuzz, Supa, FZ1a, FZ1b, bosstone, kay fuzz, ampeg scrambler, regulus 8, lovetone, etc the wacky list marches on.....
     
  18. PhuzzphayzZ

    PhuzzphayzZ Member

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    I just meant, 'Not Marty Robbins Fuzz', lol!
     
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  19. PhuzzphayzZ

    PhuzzphayzZ Member

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    oh, Rite!

    I forgot bout the 'Fun' Fuzzes, (as opposed to 'Serious' Fuzz, lol)

    btw- those AM clips....WTF!!!!!!!!!... wow, do you bring the Toane

    I just want to hear a Vid of you going thru cheap cheap Fuzzes and making THEM sound like a $1,000,000!!!!

    or take a BigCommercial Fuzz like EQD Park...

    It just seems every box i hear you play out of already HAS "that splatt sound", or, you know how to turn ANYTHING into "that splatt sound" (somewhat mournful, reedy, Secret Frequency Magick, guitar tone knob?, not to mention vocal inflected microtoanz)

    lol, your tone is ridiculously good no matter the box
     
  20. splatt

    splatt david torn / splattercell Gold Supporting Member

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    hard to find, maybe..... i don't believe they sold well at all:
    guyatone ultron.
    badass. can get very weird, too.



    same guitar, different pickup and..... different setting on the fuzz!

    4th bias knob? hmmmm.
    it's not atypical for a tone knob on a Tonebender MkIV (and some III's?) to be a knob that actually crossfades/blends/mixes between transistors, afaict.

    because they sound & respond quite differently; as well, there's only 2 Tonebenders that used 2 transistors, and they were Tonebenders Mk1.5 (note the lack of Roman numerals), which were the brief 2nd version of the Supa Fuzz (not "Super Fuzz") --- and whose builds are much closer to that of a FuzzFace than that of a Tonebender, afaik.

    lol, logic.
    like i said..... it's all a matter of taste, and most TB's seem to use 3 transistors.
     
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