mode question

Discussion in 'Playing and Technique' started by SFT, Sep 2, 2006.

  1. SFT

    SFT Member

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    So I have always had a tought time understanding modes. Tonight I just realized that a song that has is tonally based in Dmaj (I know you rider), when I play a G major scale over it, it "works." Under the Dmaj "tonal" base, would Gmaj also be the mixolydian mode for D maj? Because the "shape" is the same.

    Hope that made sense....
     
  2. gennation

    gennation Member

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  3. gainiac

    gainiac Senior Member

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    Hey Mike,

    I just wanted to say your site is an amazingly thorough and simple to navigate "meat and potatoes" of theory for guitar. Absolutely excellent stuff.

    Very generous of you as well. Good on you! :dude

    Martin
     
  4. scottlr

    scottlr Member

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    I am curious. I have played for 40 years, and I have no idea what mode I play in at any given time. Does it really matter for you to know? If you can play a major and minor and diminished scale, what else is there really that matters? I am not trying to be argumentative. I just play. I don't really care what mode I play in. As long as the notes are pleasing. I took lessons at age 11 for about 2 years, and the teacher never got into theory at all. Since then, I have played by ear, mostly from records I had to learn for bands I played in. I am open to anything that will further my playing. But what does it really matter what mode you play in, as long as the notes are cool for what you are trying to do? To a certain degree, I need to know what I am doing in an analytical sense, but for the most part...I just play. After 40 years, I don't know one mode from the other. But I probably play them all. Tell me more...
     
  5. SFT

    SFT Member

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    Mike, I skimmed the articles on your page. Very nice layout and informative. I need to go back when I get some time and digest it all, but I did pick up some great info just going over it briefly. I'm still looking for some clarification though. Basically, the modes are nothing more than a major or minor scale in a different key, while playing over a different tonal center/chord, correct? So I don't really need to learn 7 new "shapes" of scales /modes, do I?
     
  6. Mr.Hanky

    Mr.Hanky Supporting Member

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    Well, there is only one note difference between G maj and D maj and that is C# or natural depending. So yes, you can view G major as D mixo over the Dmaj chord.
    Or you could say you were playing a b7 over a maj7 chord.

    But...as scott pointed out, the bottom line is always "if it sounds good it is good".
     
  7. Tom Gross

    Tom Gross Supporting Member

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    Modes are like scales, arpeggios, triads, exotic scales, amps, strings, picking approaches, periods of your life learning SRV note for note or Metallica tunes or Jazz standards, etc.
    They are tools for you to use, if you choose, to assist you in expressing yourself through music.
     
  8. scottlr

    scottlr Member

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    So, in all likelihood, i already know them, and just don't have a name for them?
     
  9. SFT

    SFT Member

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    So, in essence, would they all have the same "shapes" as the Ionian/major scale just starting/ending on different root notes?
     
  10. scottlr

    scottlr Member

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    without getting my guitar out and going through all of these, some seem to be minor scales... and one has a Spanish flavor to it.. and so on. Am I right?
     
  11. SFT

    SFT Member

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    That's what I thought, cuz I know the Aeolian mode is a minor scale....I think!:messedup
     
  12. beePee

    beePee Member

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    On the nose Scott. and my opinion is ...no......If you can hear the notes and know what to do with them theory is only the organization after the fact.In other words it is just a "way" (method) of explaining what already exists....it's not the rules.

    if you called a major scale puddintang but knew how to play it and what it sounded like and how, when ,where, etc to play it musically ..you're golden.

    I' am in no way anti theor/knowledge...in fact quite the contrary.I've just seen it absolutely sidetrack and discourage natural musicians to the point of a cryin shame. Mixolydian, Pixolodian ..what does it sound like when you play.

    The thing is ...it ain't rocket surgery.It can be learned if you want.Be fore warned... if that is not your MO it will clogg your synapses with much pain and useles information at first ...it's part of the process.

    I like it when I work with a student and they have a practical application and they worked out most on their own.Then I just point to where the missing puzzle piece goes and they got it!!.:RoCkIn


    Bee"K.I.S.S."Pee
     
  13. scottlr

    scottlr Member

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    Well, after 40 years, I find it all interesting, but i certainly don't need to clog the drain :)
     
  14. scottlr

    scottlr Member

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    :) Lol

    I did copy and print out your modes chart and I'll check them out.
     
  15. Guinness Lad

    Guinness Lad Silver Supporting Member

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    You have to careful with a straight substitition of a G Ionian mode over a D chord. The problem is a D chord has F# in it and if you land on that G a lot most likely it's not going to sound too great.
     
  16. gainiac

    gainiac Senior Member

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    The simplest way to think about it for me is that for any chord in a given key built off a specific scale degree of that key the corresponding mode will be the scale most consonant with that chord.
     
  17. Tom Gross

    Tom Gross Supporting Member

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    But......
    the most important thing is the stress, the sound of the mode. Playing A dorian is not "the same thing as playing a G Major scale", any more than "Oye Como Va" is the same as "Little Wing".

    Gambale's video is very good at making this point.

    Also, I believe you need to see each mode "both ways":

    [​IMG]

    The "G major starting on the fifth note" is to find the fingerings
    The "D Major with a flat 7th" is to understand the sound and chemistry of the mode.

    And there is much more to be done with modes than just run up and down the scale...
     
  18. gainiac

    gainiac Senior Member

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    Yeah, my modal ear went to shite in the last 4/5 years because I've been involved in so many "conventional" projects where anything other than good ol' Mixolydian, Dorian, Maj/Min Penta's just didn't fit the context or was too "outside" for certain people I've played with.

    NOw I'm back to working on my own mutant material and I plan to indulge to the fullest. I do fear that I'm a current sufferer of Diatonia and I'd like to break out of that. How does one go about introducing more modulation into rock?
     
  19. gainiac

    gainiac Senior Member

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    Well it does kinda come down to that! :YinYang
     
  20. Tom Gross

    Tom Gross Supporting Member

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    BTW - great post, nice charts, OTM
     

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