Discussion in 'Digital & Modeling Gear' started by ALOfYRSnfWhres, Oct 14, 2017.
Dude, it's absolutely amazing how little of an idea you seem to have...
Some products very popular here have no retail outlets other than over seas. It works out ok.
If unsure about any product, wait it out. Give the product time to develop. Then buy fire sales if they don't. That's how I do it.
While I would not put it quite so harshly, I have to agree.
1) As an owner of both an HD500X and a Helix, while the Helix is, technically, just an eveolution of the HD series, it is, qualitatively a HUGE leap forward from the 500X. Just about everything is radically evolved and improved. Amp modeling. Cab modeling. Effects. UI. Editing software. The difference is nothing less than night and day.
2) Price-point on the Helix is incredibly reasonable from just about any standpoint (except, perhaps, what you personally are willing to pay). To get an equivalent number and quality of tones to the Helix I would have to (and in fact have, over the years) spend tens of thousands of dollars versus the $850 to $1400ish you pay for anHelix (depending on your preferences for IO and UI). Conversely, when you look at the huge amount of resources Line6 has sunk into creating the modeling in the Helix and what they continue to spend in adding and improving with their frequent firmware updates, the price, again, is almost laughably low.
I understand everyone wants to have everything and pay next to nothing for it. (Heck, I’m guilty of it too!) That having been said, innovation costs money. Quality manufacturing costs money. Good quality control costs money. Good support costs money. Continuing and ongoing development costs money. There ain’t no such thing as a free lunch. At some point, if you want to have nice things, you have to pay for them. While Line6’s track record in the past has been... inconsistent (ranging from brilliant to wtf), the Helix (like the Axe and Kemper) is beyond brilliant and the resources they continue to throw into its support and evolution is impressive by any modern standard.
At least where I come from, that is not “too big for their britches”... it’s called “knocking it out of the park”.
Well, harshly? Could be, but really not exactly so. I mean, he's constantly stating things that are so far away from reality, it's really getting strange ("IRs don't matter much when playing live" and such well informed stuff...). But well, he's got me on ignore anyway.
Add to this scribble strips, capacitive switches, 4 loops and whatever I might've forgotten.
Even if you just add the costs for these (plus a dedicated IR loader) to the cost of a POD, you'll be very close to the price of a Helix floor.
I still don't own a Helix, but from the times I fooled around with it, I can safely say that it's pretty much like night and day compared to whatever PODs. Dialing in a decent sound on a POD is a hassle. On the Helix it's almost a joy. Same goes for setting up a decent live/switching scenario.
I disagree with all of this, let me tell you why.
There was a video on this site a few months ago, a guy comparing an HD500x to helix, running through the same IR on his daw, using a variety of models. The end result was virtually identical, they had very similar sounds, it would be difficult to pick out which was which. The amp modeling on the HD500x was already very good, and it had excellent playability (touch sensitivity, respond to volume, etc.), however it was difficult to program, had a horrible UI, and a very poor hardware specification (low dynamic range, clipping, didnt work with 4cm, etc.)
The Helix basically took their existing models, added IR loading, new UI, and added hardware specification very similar to the GT100 (which sells for $500). If you have tried a GT100, you would realize it got everything "right" that the HD500x got wrong. Switchable FX loop, transparent and enough dynamic range to work in 4cm without degrading the signal, advanced switching, large UI that shows pedal assignments in manual mode, ability to use as an audio interface, etc ,etc. The Helix UI was obviously heavily inspired by the GT100 as well.
Basically, the Helix was a huge leap over the HD500x because it was designed to do the things that the Gt100 already did, yet tripled the price.
Let me put this another way: The Boss Gt-100 ($500) and the GE200 ($300) together cover the entire Helix feature set. If you take the GT100 and add a color screen and IRs, you basically have a Helix feature set. There is every reason to believe that Boss can deliver a "Helix killer" for $500. Helix pricing is way out in left field.
Statements such as this are - well, I'm actually lacking words. "Completely uninformed" would be the understatement of the year.
And fwiw: If Boss could do that, why aren't they?
There is some weirdness going on in this thread right now. I love when people state as fact, things they could not possibly know about a manufacturers product or design philosophies. Fun times.
Regardless, I've had some fun messing with the GE200. I created a quick "brown sound" video, mainly because I'm a walking cliche. You can see it in this thread:
I really enjoyed your playing, well done! Pretty good with the Brown tone. Not perfect but better then my Digitech RP360 I had which means alot to me!
That simply has not been my personal, hands-on, first-hand experience. The mileage of others may vary. Doesn't change my experience or opinion.
BTW, I also own a GT-1 and a Boss Katana, which has all of the engines/algos and effects of the GT-100 available, albeit without the interface. So my comments and options regarding the value and price of the Helix extend to consideration of the Boss products. Excellent stuff. Not in the same league though, in my personal experience.
The GT-100 hardware (which you don't have experience with) does all the things the Helix does (albeit in orange and white). All of the extra hardware capabilities you are enjoying over the HD500x, already existed in the GT-100. GT-1 and Katana are stripped bare.
My point being that the "GT1000" just needs a color screen, IR loading, and latest generation of MCU to provide an equivalent experience, they can even keep the current UI (as it stands up well.) And I'd wager that Boss will do this at < $600.
Your experience with the HD500x makes the Helix seem like a good value, but coming from the GT100, it seems way overpriced.
i agree with you again. Now that line 6 has moved their pricepoint so high that lowmid market is just wide open to take the market by storm. Boss has done it with the katana and the gt-1 in the last 2 yrs so if they can pull off a gt-200 or gt-1000 with ir loading and re done amps/ effects for 400-600.00 it will really be maybe amazing.
Rebrand the cosm wording to something else as that cosm word has been ripped apart-mayv=be waza wording??
I am more interested in that low-mid ground for value which i think forces a company to really innovate and be creative with the unit to meet that pricepoint and still be decent to great.
I am not anti helix or fractal but root for the underdogs because i am financially strapped and frankley dont need or want to spend thousands on modeling gear. Some guys here have all these high end units and have spent 10k on units/speakers which i just cant justify even if i play in a bar band every weekend.
I think Boss would have a difficult time making their next GT cost $1500, even if they were being wasteful.
Adding a color screen and IR loading is relatively cheap. All they need is next generation MCU for more processing power (maybe necessary to run IRs) then they can increase resolution of models even more.
The GT already has everything expected from a flagship processor. Great user interface, dynamic range / transparency, programmable FX loop (only one), 4cm, audio interface, pedal assigns, advanced midi, manual mode w/ graphical pedal assigns (not scribbles) and advanced switching.
An upgraded GT unit would be KILLER
There is some SERIOUS Boss Kool-Aid drinking in here and I love it They would absolutely crush that mid-tier price point I am betting. Unfortunately; I am not sure if we will ever find out one way or another. I'll buy it if they build it
If a GT1000 comes out, I am all in!
Not. Even. Remotely.
wow thats pretty sad. The cl here these guys still think its worth $300+ ! go figure
Now, let's hear some GE200 clean tones with a hint of breakup as well.
Signal chain GE200:
- NOISE KILLER
- YELLOW COMP
- TUBE DR
- UK30 CL
- US TWN 212
DoodDad Fashion (Moderne copy) with Dimarzio X2N
Recorded direct through GE200 USB audio interface into Cubase
Sweet! maybe now there will be less derailing from Boss fandom in a Mooer Thread
That's not a bad sound at all, thanks.
Nice clip, one of the first clips I've heard that betters my GT1 - it seems to have a bit more clarity, for want of a better word, it would be good to see if IRs could make it even better. Not sure I would call that clean with a hint of breakup, it sounded fairly overdriven to me - unless you equate that to a Ferrari having a "hint" of sports car! ;-)