Moog MF 104m delay users: how are you dealing with the buffer?

Discussion in 'Effects, Pedals, Strings & Things' started by Chrissy, Jan 17, 2014.

  1. Chrissy

    Chrissy Member

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    Recently bought a Moog MF104m delay.

    I love a lot about this box: the tone of the delay repeats is just what I like, I find both short and long delay voicings useable, the modulation is great, the features are great...

    Which brings me to the buffer. Since this pedal buffer is on even in bypass mode it changes my base tone considerably. IMHO not for the better. There is a harshness and brightness to it that I don't have when it's not in line. Even compared to straight in with a 15ft cable, it is just more artificially pristine and looses the juicy tone I spent a lot of time and effort getting.

    I've tried putting it in a true bypass loop and the change is obvious and I don't like it. Whilst that would give me the option of unbuffered when disengaged thre would be a too dramatic brightening when engaging the delay via the bypass loop. I've tried using it running a line out of my main amp and setting up a separate wet amp - this sounds great but is not always practical.

    Even using the delay only wet output to a second amp is not as good because my dry amp still sees the buffer. Gone is my fat round base tone...

    I'd like to know how other users are dealing with it. Do you have it in series with other pedals on your board and just live with the buffer. If so, did you successfully re-EQ your amp? Or are you going parallel loop, wet box, or some other configuration to avoid the pitfalls of the buffer?

    All input much appreciated...
     
  2. Chrissy

    Chrissy Member

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  3. GuitarBrent

    GuitarBrent Member

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    Do you have any other buffered pedals in your chain? Honestly, it sounds like this pedal just isn't for you. My favorite delay ever was the Empress Superdelay. It is true bypass, but the way it drastically altered my base tone, especially my fuzzes, when engaged was a total deal breaker. Loved the delays like crazy though.
     
  4. bt2513

    bt2513 Member

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    I actually have no qualms with the buffer and don't find any brightness/harshness at all. I have two other Foogers in line as well (including the Ring Mod with an always on drive control) and find the added very subtle harmonics actually pleasing. As said before, maybe it's just not for you. I personally don't hear much of a change at all. The buffer in these is studio grade - but to each their own.

    Edit: to answer your questions more specifically, I'm running a Princeton Reverb and Maz 18. I have several other buffered pedals including a TS7, Flint, and occasional DD-5. I have always kept the Cut knob on the Maz 18 at about 9 o'clock and the PR is running through a celestion V30 at the moment for more robust lower mids. I think my setup caters to these pedals well.
     
  5. btdvox

    btdvox Supporting Member

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    Have no issues with the buffer. In fact it sounds great with my rig.
     
  6. el guapo

    el guapo Member

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    The effect of the buffer on my guitar signal is one of the reasons I sold my old moog mg-104 away years ago.
     
  7. redeyeflight

    redeyeflight Member

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    If you hold down the bypass footswitch you can change the pedal from buffered to True bypass mode. The led will change from green/red to orange/red.
     
  8. succor

    succor Member

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    Unfortunately, while the MF104M does switch between spillover and non-spillover, there is no true bypass circuitry.

    OP, the buffer took some getting used to in my setup but now I'm hooked. I did have to re-EQ my amp (Princeton Reverb), but I understand your apprehension when you've already got a great base sound.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2014
  9. GuitarBrent

    GuitarBrent Member

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    That should solve his problem, except it apparently bothers him when the effect is on. This is the exact problem I had with the Superdelay.
     
  10. Chrissy

    Chrissy Member

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    Thanks for the interesting input gentlemen.

    No other buffers were used in this comparison. In fact, no other boxes at all.

    redeyeflight, as succor points out, whilst one mode is called "bypass" it is not true bypass. It could be called "cut off" mode as this is the only distinction to trail mode tone wise.

    GuitarBrent: I've experienced the issue you had with the Empress before. In my case it was with a Strymon. Next to try with the Moog is how it effects my drives. As you point out, that can be a deal-breaker.

    As always, these threads remind me of how much YMMV is true:

    Some don't hear much change.
    Some hear a change and prefer it.
    Some hear a change and don't like it.
     
  11. btdvox

    btdvox Supporting Member

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    Kind of right, kind of wrong. The Bypass mode and "Trails" mode differ in that Trails adds a bit of noise and hiss to the signal, as any delay with trails does.

    I own numerous pedals that allow trails and they always add this hiss except for my Strymon El Capistan. My Memory Lane Jr does it, my old Memory Lane 2 did it, Echorec did it and many others.
     
  12. Chrissy

    Chrissy Member

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    Ver interesting. I'll listen out for that.
     
  13. btdvox

    btdvox Supporting Member

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    I should note that I get no change in tone in bypass mode. I get almost no extra noise too. But buffers work differently with different set ups
     

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