Much respect for professional opinions (gigging guitarists)

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs' started by Coiled, Feb 1, 2020.

  1. guitarman3001

    guitarman3001 Member

    Messages:
    9,963
    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2009
    I don't tone search for the crowd, I tone search for me. That said, I do have a good idea of what tones will be pleasing to a crowd and which ones won't be, and fortunately the crowd pleasing tones are always in line with the tones I personally like for myself.

    But I've never understood players whose personal tonal preferences are so far removed from what a crowd would find pleasing, yet they are completely unaware of it and assault the crowd with a horrible tone.
     
    homeunit likes this.
  2. hunter

    hunter Supporting Member

    Messages:
    6,070
    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2002
    I am only as good as my worst performance. Consistency at an acceptable performance level is critical. Consistent practice and preparation is key to consistent performance. I am more likely to get nervous when my preparation is inadequate.
     
    LoadedGoat and homeunit like this.
  3. Coiled

    Coiled Member

    Messages:
    591
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2019

    True, I guess I’m kinda dreaming. I’m not sure I have a solution that would help to describe a reviewers playstyle. (Home, live, high gain, low gain, pro/newbie etc..)

    One thought here on this forum is to simply put something in your signature describing your play style. Again, I’m just dreaming but it could work here. As we read reviews we would understand where a reviewer is coming from. There are many styles of play, none right or wrong, BUT the review from a country player on a Tele and a Djent eight string active pickup player would be very different. It would be nice to know.
     
  4. Coiled

    Coiled Member

    Messages:
    591
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2019


    So it’s weird, I’ve been playing over 30 years and can really play guitar. From time to time I ask myself why? Nobody really hears me play other than family (they are sick of it) Why am I making music if nobody hears it. If a guitarist plays alone does it make a sound (tree forest thing). I’m not sure.

    If I play alone, I am really loose. I do things that I don’t have to think about. But if a single person iis watching me I choke up. Normally, I just play easier pieces when people listen but it sure would be nice if I could loosen up. Even at guitar center, I choke up a bit (although I almost always receive compliments)

    Practice makes perfect and it could just be the fact that I need more time playing in front of others. I’ll find an open mic with people I don’t know and I’ll give it a try soon. Thanks for the advice.
     
    LoadedGoat likes this.
  5. RockDebris

    RockDebris Member

    Messages:
    3,172
    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2015
    Pretty much. It's all free, so it's hard to expect more. I just use any piece of advice on a forum as a starting point and figure things out from there, but if someone backs up their advice or opinion with detailed personal experience, audio clips or videos, I always take a look.
     
    LoadedGoat likes this.
  6. Mickey Shane

    Mickey Shane apolitical Silver Supporting Member

    Messages:
    2,253
    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2005
    Location:
    Denton, Texas
    Workers are going to recommend what they like. How they use it falls under proprietary information.
     
  7. homeunit

    homeunit Supporting Member

    Messages:
    986
    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2007
    Location:
    Vancouver, B.C
    Great thread. Rock player here, covers to tool.

    The times i’ve had stage fright is if the band, or I am unprepared. I remember one cover band I was in and the drummer took a long time to learn new tunes. We were playing a show and the singer starts playing the opening riff to nobody said it was easy. I looked back at the drummer and he was a total deer in the headlights. I started moving my head to the beat, and counted him in. Same song, same night, the singer was supposed to take the solo in that tune, it came time, he kept playing rhythm through it. I waited the first 2 bars and faked one for him. I hated the feeling of that.

    Tone wise, for live mids are important, but the bass tone and other guitar players tones are also important. I’ve done a lot of 3 piece work which I’ve found easier to dial in tones. What I’ve always done was work out where the bass mids end and try to dial to that. When we got it right, an open drop D sus2 chord sounded like god played it. Working. With other guitar players can be tough. I played in an original project and the singer/rhythm guitarist played a dual recto with his mids pinned, eqed like a harsh frown. Horrible tone, and impossible to play alongside. He wanted to be heard, and he was. I quit that band over his tone, lol.
     
  8. GreatDaneRock

    GreatDaneRock Member

    Messages:
    364
    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2018
    Location:
    Central Florida
    you're not at fault for picking the wrong style brother, you're at fault for watching the wrong videos for the style you picked.

    Cheers
     
  9. C-4

    C-4 Member

    Messages:
    13,298
    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2009
    Location:
    I love Red Bank, NJ! Florida now Europe later
    I've been playing in bands since 1958. I started playing guitar in 1957, and have played in orchestras, swing bands, Dixieland bands, bluegrass bands, country bands of all types, commercial dance bands, wedding bands (no pun intended), pickup groups, union bands, rock bands, whatever.

    I did session work as well, and learned to play whatever the producers wanted me too to make them happy. Tommy Tedesco reinforced what my father had also told me, when I attended clinics to see him and learn from his books and articles in Guitar Player as well.

    I still play in a band at 71, and love it as much now, as ever. It is my true enjoyment thing.

    Since I only sing about 6 songs a night, including Dire Straits, Clapton, George Strait, etc., I stand in the back in some clubs, due to the stage size, and up front in others. I set up where I'm told, and play the songs as true to the records as the band leader asks. When they want me to play what I want, I do that as well. Whatever it takes to get the song across so that we sound as good as possible is what I do, along with the other musicians in the band.

    It's a team effort, and the audience still recognizes what I do, so showing off is not part of my agenda at all, and never has been. Neither is volume. I have turned my speaker cab back in to face me from in front of me, and control my sound better, without annoying any other players or audience members sitting up front.

    I never boast or brag either. Jeff Baxter and I used to talk about such matters, and I learned a lot from him about the higher level players and how they act and/or should have acted in a given situation.

    I try to always use the best gear I can afford, and come prepared. I have found that for me, when I cannot blame a poor performance on the gear, then I have no excuses. I am also able to concentrate better on just playing the music and not thinking about some piece of gear, which might crap out on me during a performance.

    I understand that others may or may not think this way, but I do whatever is needed to make sure I am not the reason something went wrong. I cannot control what others in the band do, but the current players are all professional, and no one has an ego, so the band runs pretty smoothly.
     
  10. Phil the Kill Bill V2 guy

    Phil the Kill Bill V2 guy Member

    Messages:
    620
    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2018
    Lots of wisdom from C-4 .
    I agree, the main thing is how the whole band gels musically, and sonically. I’ve worked with musicians with less training and/or experience than myself, but with everyone working together to follow the arrangement and use appropriate volume and sounds, you’ll get good results. Have someone record or video the band, and hear/see for yourself what’s wrong and what’s right.
     
    homeunit, CaliCaveMan and C-4 like this.
  11. LoadedGoat

    LoadedGoat Member

    Messages:
    148
    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2019
    Location:
    Ohio
    +1
     
  12. CaliCaveMan

    CaliCaveMan Silver Supporting Member

    Messages:
    1,453
    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2016
    Location:
    Northern Ca

    AGREED! Absolutely record and video for learning and improvement.

    Before my last band started gigging the other guitar player and I said we wouldn't play out at all until we had a chance to do a dress rehearsal and record. God it exposed all the things that needed to be addressed. Sometimes people won't listen to you, but the recordings tell all. For example, back ground vocals...OMG that was huge. Some members wanted to sing and do some vocal work and after that day of recording and playing back later, the evidence spoke for itself. People had to admit and accept their limitations for the good of songs and prevent embarrassment. You can have a great awesome band and then put crap vocals in there to ruin everything, lol....

    We video taped our second show and learned so much we could work on to be better. Part of the fun is trying to get better. It's live and will never be perfect, but paying attention to details will separate yourself/group to getting gigs and have way more fun.
     
    homeunit likes this.
  13. Hugh_s

    Hugh_s Member

    Messages:
    3,794
    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2013
    Always remember the crowd doesn’t go out hoping to see a terrible band. They go to have a good time and enjoy themselves, they WANT you do succeed so it’s easy to please most of them, you don’t really have to worry about that angle.
     
  14. spencer096

    spencer096 Member

    Messages:
    502
    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2005
    Location:
    cleveland, OH/denton, TX
    it's awesome you mentioned this...it's something i didnt understand when i was just playing guitar. fast forward, just started gigging on guitar again after a decade away while bass has become my main instrument...and i understood this far deeper than before. dont forget about the bass frequencies coming from the drumkit either.

    during soundcheck (liberally calling it that...majority of the time it's just "wasting time" before starting), i key in my sound for the room with my bass/guitar's volume knocked back a lil bit. this way i can just shoot the volume up full if i need a boost for a solo. for EQ (only applies to guitar, i keep my bass EQ flat) on a vox ac15 i typically start with bass at 10:00 and treble at 2:00 and adjust from there based on guitar (strat or 335), how boomy it is and how much of a presence the bassist has. i play mostly jazz, blues, funk and classic rock...only pedal is a benson preamp, and i typically only boost the drive up when necessary. other than that, try to find 1. primary sound, 2. working sound on different pickup selection with no adjustments, 3. no knobs are turned when the music starts unless it's absolutely called for (i.e. more gain). modellers have messed with my head big time...they are incredibly useful even if youre not a pro...dont dismiss them.

    the five drummers i play with range from "quiet professional" to "jesus stfu for the love of god" and havent found ive needed more than an 18w amp with a good speaker to keep up, but dont take that as gospel.

    however, the more gigs ive played on both instruments, the more ive trended towards a minimalist kit. one trip to the car is the most important thing...to the point ive kinda gone away from niche and boutique amps, simply because if you ever play a gig with a backline provided, youll realize you dont have much choice (unless youre playing great gigs, which i assuredly am not). if your main amp is a deluxe reverb, youll be in good shape at a backline-provided gig, if you need to get yours repaired or it gets stolen...but unless youre comfy replicating a dr z carmen ghia on a vox ac30, it could take you out of your comfort zone.

    like you said, there's varying levels of player...especially gigging player. a dude playing jazz and blues a couple times a week in northeast ohio is a quantum leap away from even a guy gigging regionally enough to support his lifestyle in a musically-bustling area. i cant call my shots and dont have the time or desire to schlep a bunch of gear around...so it doesnt make a lot of sense to get a dumble clone of my dreams when the podunk summer festival is just going to provide a hot rod deville no matter what i responded with.
     
    Coiled likes this.
  15. BADHAK

    BADHAK Member

    Messages:
    8,623
    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2012
    For most of my playing life my home settings haven't been that much different from my gig settings. I might add a touch of mids or drop the bass a tad for the gig but it's not drastic. I don't play at home super quiet and I don't dial in any more gain than id use live. My fave guitar tones are the medium gain, brighter, midrangey kind and whenever I hear of an amp that's "like a classic Marshall but with more bass/less high mids/more gain" I stay away.
     
    homeunit likes this.
  16. ProfRhino

    ProfRhino Member

    Messages:
    6,028
    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2007
    some solid points there ! :aok

    let me add that I'm often tempted to ignore posts that fail to give some hints at least about the entire chain a poster is referring to, and / or the style he's talking about. :facepalm

    sure, we all know a Plexi sucks ! :dunno
    (if you're using it to play a classical concerto on 6 string banjo next to the sleeping baby !)

    context does matter, twitter style quick'n'shallow one liners usually don't.
    just like in real life ... :p

    lol,
    Rhino
     
  17. Mr.Hanky

    Mr.Hanky Member

    Messages:
    3,992
    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2005
    Location:
    New Joisey
    I think one good analogy (me being a boxing fan) is that training in the gym is one aspect, stepping in the ring is another.

    Gigging with a band will quickly help you trim all that fat and figure out what works and what doesn't, gear-wise and playing-wise. I played with another guitar player, bass drums vocals and an occasional harp player.
    When you have other harmony instruments to contend with, you have to find your space, what works and what suits the band overall. It is a team effort, so try to be cohesive and keep the team in mind.

    The other guitarist and myself eventually settled on him playing a Strat and blackface, and I brought the Les Paul/Marshall fury, it just worked.
    I remember one gig when I popped a string and used my NoCaster (backup) for the rest of the set, a guy came up to me before I even packed up my pedalboard and told me the Fender clashed with the other guitarist and not to use it again. Too funny.

    As for the stage fright, I don't have much to offer. You simply have to keep doing it to the point where it simply won't bother you. You are not as under the microscope as you think you are, we are our own worst critics, and at times, worst enemies. Have confidence and develop your own swag!
     
    candid_x likes this.
  18. CaliCaveMan

    CaliCaveMan Silver Supporting Member

    Messages:
    1,453
    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2016
    Location:
    Northern Ca
    A really good player I know who has been playing pro since the 80’s and has played in some top name bands over the years told me to “own it” when referring to playing in general. That same confidence feeling applies to being on a stage. I’ve watched him on stage with a particular guitar hero of mine and he not only held his own but kicked everything up a notch and it reminded me how much he always has in reserve, so I guess practicing a lot and with that confidence mentality pays you back when on stage.
     
    atomheart411 and ProfRhino like this.
  19. atomheart411

    atomheart411 Member

    Messages:
    102
    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2013
    Location:
    Norcal
     

Share This Page