Multiple Preamps For The Core Tone

SlapHand

Member
Messages
163
Hi all!

I’ve been lurking ‘The Rack Space’ for some time now. Awesome subforum and so much knowledge shared by you guys. Thx!!!

I got into rack gear about a year ago. Instantly hooked !!! I have collected quite a bit of gear (for a newbie) in the past year and I am stunned by the flexibility and sound I am getting from the ‘fridge’ I have put together.

It started by me buying an old JMP-1, an EL84 20/20 and a G-Major 2. Did not take long before I got myself an ADA MP1 and I now have a Triaxis incoming. Some old Lexicons and Rocktrons for the Fx.
After some experimenting I have ended up running the preamps into a dedicated line mixer where I mix them into my core sound. I use both channels from the preamps because I some times use the stereo chorus on the MP1.

I allways feel something is lacking if I just run one preamp…

So finally to my question…

Do you guys play one preamp at the time or do you mix them together?

Am I fooling my self by the volume jump from additional signal inputs?

With the Triaxis incoming I might end up running six preamp signals and something in my head says… you are doing this wrong or at least there is something you dont understand!

Tips and tricks are welcome!

SlapHand
 

ctreitzell

Member
Messages
3,416
I'm mostly one pre at a time as my pres are in serial loops. Some great recordings have been made mixing different frequency ranges of different pres...I haven't done it, yet I assume the best results are obtained in parallel with a mixer.

How do you have your pres routed?

I second the tip of the hat to the contributors and veterans of the Rack Space sub-forum. I have learned so much here in the past five years :-D
 

SlapHand

Member
Messages
163
Thx for responding!

I switch the pres in and out with Voodoo Lab GCP and GCX. They go parallel into an ART MX821S for mix/blending and stereo out from the ART into a Rane MX6s for splitting. I have the LMC Dual St. Line Mixer for the organizing of FX...

At first I used 4 loops on the GCX for the MP1 and JMP-1 so I could mix and match the channels of the pres. I found my self always using both L and R of both pres, so now I only use one loop for each to put them in or out of the circuit. This also freed up two loops of the GCX. The stereo outs from the pres go directly into the ART occupying 4 channels.

The reason I use both L and R out on the JMP-1 (no stereo or anything in the loop of it) is to match the MP1´s signal which have to use both channels for the stereo chorus.

I have a TERC incoming so I doubt I will keep using the chorus feature of the MP1... but as now, I think I´ll keep blending preamps.

I wouldn't say I have a big dilemma on how to do this but I´m curios about how others handle multiple pres in a rack setup.

SlapHand
 

uraniumwilly

Member
Messages
686
Yeah, Todd is most likely spot on with the mixer idea. I'd guess such subtleties in sound were best revealed with a good room and monitors.

Aside from that, multiple guitar amps simultaneously split, miced and played might be a better way to the tone nirvana you seek.
 

Serious Poo

Powered by Coffee
Platinum Supporting Member
Messages
6,812
I haven't had much success with this. I've tried it with both a GCX and a Switchblade but have had very poor results - mostly with overloaded volume and gain levels. I'm sure it's doable, but I haven't figured out how yet.
 

guitarjazz

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
22,392
Hi all!

I’ve been lurking ‘The Rack Space’ for some time now. Awesome subforum and so much knowledge shared by you guys. Thx!!!

I got into rack gear about a year ago. Instantly hooked !!! I have collected quite a bit of gear (for a newbie) in the past year and I am stunned by the flexibility and sound I am getting from the ‘fridge’ I have put together.

It started by me buying an old JMP-1, an EL84 20/20 and a G-Major 2. Did not take long before I got myself an ADA MP1 and I now have a Triaxis incoming. Some old Lexicons and Rocktrons for the Fx.
After some experimenting I have ended up running the preamps into a dedicated line mixer where I mix them into my core sound. I use both channels from the preamps because I some times use the stereo chorus on the MP1.

I allways feel something is lacking if I just run one preamp…

So finally to my question…

Do you guys play one preamp at the time or do you mix them together?

Am I fooling my self by the volume jump from additional signal inputs?

With the Triaxis incoming I might end up running six preamp signals and something in my head says… you are doing this wrong or at least there is something you dont understand!

Tips and tricks are welcome!

SlapHand
I'm an old rack guy and I'm telling that one good tone is far more useable than a 'core tone' with multiple preamps. Of course, if you just like d*cking around with stuff, have at it.
 

littleb

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
122
To the o.p.,
6 preamps on at the same time getting mixed together ,I would think there'd be phase issues but maybe not if you got it all right.
I run 6-8 preamps,but in a different way with a bradshaw splitter & mixer that gives me 2 pres at a time- one pre dry into center cab,and one pre into left and right effects cabs.
So I'm getting 2 different preamps at the same time,but one is dry and the other is used for effects.They also go to different poweramps which further color the sound spectrum.
It's only 2 at a time but it sounds really good mixed into foh that way.What your end result will be might also depend on what your goal is- are you just experimenting at home, taking this out to gigs, jamming with a band,etc..
 

SlapHand

Member
Messages
163
Hi!

Your w/d/w setup is interesting. I have the gear for such a setup and this is absolutely something I’ll try out. Do you mix any dry into the wet cabs or run them 100% wet?

So far i’ve only done stereo with my rack. I actually have a w/d/w setup with 2 DSL’s and a 2204 when playing regular amps.

Yes, I’m aware of the phase issue. The solid state option of the MP1 will not pair with the JMP. Other then that I have no issues at the moment. The incoming Triaxis might complicate things but I hope not. Which makes me wonder… is there any way to flip phase using MIDI?

I play mostly at home but have monthly jam nights with friends.

The rack is a homestudio thing so far. I might try it out in a band setting when things fall into place.

SlapHand
 

littleb

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
122
I do mix some dry into the wets,but my wet cabs are fed a totally different preamp than the dry cab.I could easily feed the same preamp to w/d/w cabs,but with the flexibility of running 2 different preamps at once,it's a far bigger,wider sound and tone compliment. Kinda sorta like 2 different guitar player's rigs playing together.
For instance, I run a cae 3+ se into a dry 4x12 cab into a vht 2100 classic..very raw,in your face tone..My wet 4x12s would be my soldano x88r into all effects, out to a vht 2150.. so the x88r is switched into a cae mixer,which also has all the effects.obviously you can enable kill dry in the effects for 100% wet- and less phase issues, but I like a bit of the dry mixed in on the effects units themselves.
- thats personal preference,you may choose not to.anyways,I usually pair my 2 preamps up based on similarities but not all the time, ie: the cae and x88r sound killer together, the jmp1 and triaxis,the bogner fish and vht gpr,and I'll probably add some synergy ones in too at some point..ive experimented for hrs and hrs and found this works the best for my rig.
The heavy lifting gets done by a CAE splitter, mixer,and interface. Dry preamps get switched by a mesa amp selector...ur question about phase..yes..I can have phase issues, but rarely..but- the first thing my guitar signal hits is a mesa a/ b box which has midi and phase under midi..so if I have a phase issue,I just simply program my cae rst-24 board to switch the phase all under preset control.its no biggie at all.Bob even made me a rst extender box that for which I can switch phase in real time if I want to..
So as you can see,there's many ways to do all this..its fun,it's rewarding, and you can find some great tones thru experimenting .
 

SlapHand

Member
Messages
163
I will try this. I have a Marshall 9100 and a Marshall EL84 20/20. i guess the return on the DSL 40 combos is an alternative since I only have 2 cabs… a 4x12 and a 2x12.

Various reasons restrict me from playing loud at the moment so right now I go into my DAW where I load IR’s and out to headphones.

Not ideal but this is temporary.
 




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