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Music theory question on a chord progression <M>

NB_Terry

Member
Messages
3,065
The chords are Gm Cm Dmajor.

This seems to be i iV V in the key of G.

Is the "technically" correct scale for this progression is G harmonic minor?

Lastly, what popular songs have this progression?

Thanks.
 
M

Member 995

A lot of minor blues, "Minor Swing," and a million more. It is pretty common to make the v chord in a minor key either a V or a V7. It makes the tension/resolution stronger when going back to the i chord.

Personally, I wouldn't play the same scale over the whole progression, so saying harmonic minor is 'correct' doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

Bryan
 

meterman

Member
Messages
7,924
Yeah going to the V7 in a minor progression is a beautiful thing :) Not saying it's the right way but if I was playing over that I'd probably stay in Gm for the i iv, or G blues scale, and then over the V7 try to use an altered dominant idea (D7alt in this case) which resolves really nicely back to the Gm. If that doesn't fit the song you could try D maj pent, D myx (which is G major), even just a blues lick in D could work. G harmonic minor would actually work all the way through I think and would give you an altered sound on the D but that "snake charmer" sound over the Gm may not fit the song all the time...so you could play Gm over the i & iv and then G harmonic minor over the D, that would be one way to get D7alt (actually D7#5b9)...
 
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jtm622

Member
Messages
9,303
A harmonic minor scale works well with that chord line (Gm Cm D7); and just toss in an F# "diminished" scale over that D7 chord...
(F# diminished has only 4 different tones: F# .. A .. C .. D#)

or, begin on the 1st string, 8th fret and descend back down to F# on the 6th string, 2nd fret...

8---5
7
8---5
7---4
6---3
5---2 (resolve on 3)

- resolve it on a "G" note (6th string , 3rd fret)

The "G harmonic minor" scale blends well with an F# dim scale...
 

meterman

Member
Messages
7,924
...just toss in an F# "diminished" scale over that D7 chord...
(F# diminished has only 4 different tones: F# .. A .. C .. D#)

...The "G harmonic minor" scale blends well with an F# dim scale...
Yes an F# diminished scale is a cool way nail a D7 altered sound, if you think of those four notes in terms of a D root you get the 3rd, 5th, b7 and b9, and all of those notes resolve very nicely back to one of the chord tones of the Gm...
 

lhallam

Platinum Supporting Member
Messages
17,306
You can play a harmonic or melodic minor over any minor chord.

That said, your ear is always the deciding factor.

Also, in a i iv V jazz blues, it's very common to play the V then up a 1/2 step to bVI7 chord then back to the V.
 

fusion58

Member
Messages
3,709
The difference between natural minor and harmonic minor is just one note.

I just zero in on that one note when I'm improvising over a V7-Imi change.
 

JRenn

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
1,253
The difference between natural minor and harmonic minor is just one note.

I just zero in on that one note when I'm improvising over a V7-Imi change.
+1. I think this is certainly the easiest way to think of it and achieve pleasing results (to the average western ear).

Play in Gminor (either harmonic or natural) throughout, but really emphasize an F# over the D7.

If you REALLY want to hit the F natural on that chord, it will probably only sound right descending (as in an F-Eb-D-C note phrase). Most of the time, concentrate on nailing the F# though, since it is the 3rd (and arguably most determinant tone) in the chord. Good luck!
 

zenguitarguy

Member
Messages
730
The chords are Gm Cm Dmajor.

This seems to be i iV V in the key of G.

Is the "technically" correct scale for this progression is G harmonic minor?

Lastly, what popular songs have this progression?

Thanks.
I-, IV- , V altered is actually more clear as the eflat note is flat 9 on the dominant, hence the viability of the dim scale, really very different colors in minor
 

gennation

Member
Messages
7,583
You don't necessarily need a whole "F# diminished scale", the F#dim7 arpeggio is found directly in the G Harmonic Minor scale, as are three derivatives too.

G Harm Min = G A Bb C D Eb F# G

The four dim7 chords found here are:

F#dim7 = F# A C Eb
Adim7 = A C Eb F#
Cdim7 = C Eb F# A
Ebdim7 = Eb F# A C

So while you're playing off chord tones over Gm and Cm, nail one or all of these arps over the D7 and you'll sound like you're "playing the changes" without changing anything.
 
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rickc007

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
3,903
Ya .... I uh ... kinda gathered

I just started Music Theory, now that I'm an accomplished Tab player

I'm half way through "Intro to Music Theory for Idiots" , Literally

But Mannnnnnnnn
Are you guys related to Beethoven or somethin

If you don't mind, I'll just watch
 

cob666

Member
Messages
3,129
That i-iv-V sounds an LOT like CCR's version of 'I Put A Spell On You'.

I also like that move to the bIV7, that sounds nice.
 

Austinrocks

Member
Messages
7,020
The chords are Gm Cm Dmajor.

This seems to be i iV V in the key of G.

Is the "technically" correct scale for this progression is G harmonic minor?

Lastly, what popular songs have this progression?

Thanks.

Gm G Bb D
Cm C Eb G
Dmaj D F# A

this is a " technically correct" G harmonic minor scale, G minor with a naturall 7th

G A Bb C D Eb F# G

so yes it is the G harmonic minor scale


most songs will add the natural 7th to a minor scale, Sultans of Swing, Dm C Bb A, its fairly common in spanish sounding music, return to forever Am G F E, santana's toussant la overture was Cm Bb Ab G as I recall.
 
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stevel

Member
Messages
14,746
The chords are Gm Cm Dmajor.

This seems to be i iV V in the key of G.

Is the "technically" correct scale for this progression is G harmonic minor?

Lastly, what popular songs have this progression?

Thanks.
Let me throw something out there:


People are too caught up in scales.

This is a simple chord progression. It's not jazz. Let's forget about playing "Alts" and adding "bVI7" and all that crap for a minute.

In traditional minor keys, composers did not think of "a scale". They thought of "a Key". This is the KEY of G minor.

And they didn't think "what scale should I play". And this is many modern musician's downfall.

They thought "what notes, in the key, will go with this chord in the way I want them to?".

The concept of "harmonic minor" is an after the fact "discovery".

A more practical way to look at minor keys is this:

There a 7 notes in a minor key, two of which are variable:

The 7th scale degree may be raised, or not, for HARMONIC reasons.

The 6th and 7th scale degrees may be raised, or not, for MELODIC reasons.

That's where we get the names "harmonic" and "melodic" minor. Not to freak anyone out, but they aren't really scales. Or rather, they weren't really scales. People have misunderstood them so long, and "misused" them so long, that they've taken on their own life - we even make modes out of them now!

The correct notes to play in G Minor are:
G A Bb C D Eb E F and F#

Which you play, depends on the circumstances.

Since the D Major harmony contains F# rather than F, the F# will have more of a "I belong in this chord" quality to it than the F will.

A classical composer would have never used the F over the D (except as a chromatic non-chord tone). But in Blues-based music, it would be common.

In Jazz minor, you'd use the E rather than Eb over the i chord if Gm6 was being implied.

Try this:

Moving from D to Gm, you play D-E-F#- | G.

Moving from Gm to D, you play G-F-Eb- | D.

You don't want to play E over the C minor or F over the D Major.

In first two, you're using notes "from melodic minor" because the reason for choosing Eb or E and F or F#, is because of their melodic motion, not necessarily because of the harmony at hand.

In the last, you choose Eb (for Cm) and F# (for D) because of harmonic reasons (so you're "using harmonic minor").

But I find it far more instructional to think of these changes in scale degrees 6 and 7 as isolated occurrences, and not as being "part of some scale".

Obviously though, if you're approaching if from a jazz standpoint, you can play with altered sounds and extensions, etc.

YMMV,
Steve
 

jtm622

Member
Messages
9,303
When to use a "harmonic" minor scale???
Simply put: Whenever the "DOMINANT" chord in a minor key is a MAJOR chord.
(Given that a harmonic minor scale is a minor scale with a sharped "LEADING" (VII) tone.)

For example: Gm (I), Cm (IV), D (V)...
Where:
I = tonic
IV = sub dominant
V = dominant
and:
VII = leading tone

When you elect to use a "major" chord ("major" = having a "natural" third) for the DOMINANT chord (V chord) in a MINOR key - the "sharped" VII tone of a harmonic minor scale matches up perfectly to the "NATURAL 3rd" found in that "MAJOR" V (dominant) chord...

P.S. - Remember...
The "leading" tone (VII tone) in MINOR keys is found a FULL step below the "tonic" tone (root)...
However, the "leading" tone in a MAJOR key is found a HALF-STEP below the tonic (root)...
 




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