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Mxr flanger doubler sound

Messages
35
Just wondering if there was a way to mod an mxr flanger to get that invert sound from the flanger doubler. I've seen a guy on YouTube who makes a clone of it in pedal form with the invert on a toggle switch....but it's about £400. If not is there anything out there which does the same thing.
 

lefort_1

Nuzzled Firmly Betwixt
Platinum Supporting Member
Messages
15,855
I am a bit confused (this often happens).
Can you point to a device (or song) which illustrates the 'flanger doubler' sound?

Are you describing parallel, detuned device (like the Digitech Luxe)?
Or are you thinking of a delay-line effect w/out detuning (like the Keeley 30 msec)?

A flanger has a moving delay, but it is typically in a narrow time-range (often in the 3-10 msec range),
but the doubling that we hear on albums (e.g. the old Abbey road doubling) is in that 30 msec range.
(fyi: 'chorus' resides between these two delay ranges)
 

Bucksears

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
9,023
Don't know, but have to say that the Filter (On) mode on the Ibanez FL99 Classic Flange does that 'vowel'-like sound.
(not that that's much of an easier pedal to come by, but still)

Any info on how he built that Doubler clone/workalike?
 

lefort_1

Nuzzled Firmly Betwixt
Platinum Supporting Member
Messages
15,855
ok, we posted about the same time.
I'm not familiar with that pedal, but to me it sounded a bit like they were switching between additive and subtractive flanging... Others who are actually building pedals that do this (I'm thinking of A/DA and perhaps JackDeVille) could give a better technical discussion than I... but since they aren't on here at the moment...
 
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Bucksears

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
9,023
I am a bit confused (this often happens).
Can you point to a device (or song) which illustrates the 'flanger doubler' sound?
Listen to Eric Johnson's 'High Landrons'. From what I've read, that's the flanger effect he uses (prominently) on that track.
 
Messages
35
I am a bit confused (this often happens).
Can you point to a device (or song) which illustrates the 'flanger doubler' sound?

Are you describing parallel, detuned device (like the Digitech Luxe)?
Or are you thinking of a delay-line effect w/out detuning (like the Keeley 30 msec)?

A flanger has a moving delay, but it is typically in a narrow time-range (often in the 3-10 msec range),
but the doubling that we hear on albums (e.g. the old Abbey road doubling) is in that 30 msec range.
(fyi: 'chorus' resides between these two delay ranges)
Its the invert switch on the old flanger doubler I'm referring to you can hear it on that video I posted
 
Messages
35
Don't know, but have to say that the Filter (On) mode on the Ibanez FL99 Classic Flange does that 'vowel'-like sound.
(not that that's much of an easier pedal to come by, but still)

Any info on how he built that Doubler clone/workalike?
Its awesome isn't it sounds incredibly versatile. He's based in the Philippines I think. He says to email him in the comments for info etc. Saw one for sale on reverb and it was very expensive
 
Messages
35
Don't know, but have to say that the Filter (On) mode on the Ibanez FL99 Classic Flange does that 'vowel'-like sound.
(not that that's much of an easier pedal to come by, but still)

Any info on how he built that Doubler clone/workalike?
Just checking out the ibanez sounds great
 

lefort_1

Nuzzled Firmly Betwixt
Platinum Supporting Member
Messages
15,855
Don't know, but have to say that the Filter (On) mode on the Ibanez FL99 Classic Flange does that 'vowel'-like sound.
(not that that's much of an easier pedal to come by, but still)

Any info on how he built that Doubler clone/workalike?
Looking at the FL9 schematic, it looks like the Filter switch literally cuts OUT a filter designed to get rid of some BBD clocking artifacts....but the single stage filter IS running on the inverted input of the 4570 op-amp, so it COULD be inverting the signal as well.
 

flpul

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
506
Just wondering if there was a way to mod an mxr flanger to get that invert sound from the flanger doubler. I've seen a guy on YouTube who makes a clone of it in pedal form with the invert on a toggle switch....but it's about £400. If not is there anything out there which does the same thing.
UAFX Astra has the rackmount Flanger/Doubler as the second effect and it has the Invert Mode.

ControlDescriptionAdditional Info
SpeedRateThe rate of modulation applied to the delay time LFO.
DepthWidthThe amount of modulation applied to the delay time LFO.
IntensityRegeneration (feedback) amountThe amount of effect routed back to its input; as the value increases, a more resonant signal is produced.
ShadeWet/dry mixNoon is max flange (50% wet).
ShapeManual sweepThe delay time; adjusts the overall sound, imparting different vowel-like qualities in the sweep.
ModeNormal or invertedInverts the phase for a more hollow sound.
Variation AFlanger modeUse for a classic flanging sound.
Variation BDoubler modeAt short settings, this creates more of a doubling effect, at longer settings creates more of a chorus-like sound.
 
Messages
35
Don't know, but have to say that the Filter (On) mode on the Ibanez FL99 Classic Flange does that 'vowel'-like sound.
(not that that's much of an easier pedal to come by, but still)

Any info on how he built that Doubler clone/workalike?
This sounds like that filter mode as it's default sound
 

lefort_1

Nuzzled Firmly Betwixt
Platinum Supporting Member
Messages
15,855
Annnnd I found a schematic of the MXR Flanger/Doubler... I assume that's what is being 'cloned'.
But then, I kinda doubt it, because the MXR 126 used TWO Reticon chips : the 5101 AND the SAD1024
Aside from scavenging old pedals, they are very tough to get.
Anyway, the Invert switch on the MXR 126 does appear to be a cute little bit of design allows one op amp stage to be either an inverting or non-inverting configuration. I might have to steal that trick for my own uses...)
 

lefort_1

Nuzzled Firmly Betwixt
Platinum Supporting Member
Messages
15,855
To answer your FIRST question, we'd need to know WHICH MXR Flanger you have.

Looking at a schematic of the old MXR 117 flanger, then the answer is NO, for just adding a switch,
BUT, YES if you wanted to add a switch and a tiny, 8-pin PCB/couple resistors/couple wires.
Lifting one leg of component R35 (150K, in-line resistor) one could switch in/out a little op-amp inverter mod.
That'd do it.

If you have a more modern/smt MXR flanger, I'm not sure where to go/mod.
 
Messages
35
To answer your FIRST question, we'd need to know WHICH MXR Flanger you have.

Looking at a schematic of the old MXR 117 flanger, then the answer is NO, for just adding a switch,
BUT, YES if you wanted to add a switch and a tiny, 8-pin PCB/couple resistors/couple wires.
Lifting one leg of component R35 (150K, in-line resistor) one could switch in/out a little op-amp inverter mod.
That'd do it.

If you have a more modern/smt MXR flanger, I'm not sure where to go/mod.
I've got the modern one the m117r
 

lefort_1

Nuzzled Firmly Betwixt
Platinum Supporting Member
Messages
15,855
IFF MXR kept the same resistor names, then R35 is labeled and available. (in second row of components under the second-from-left potentiometer.)
Being SMD, I would prefer to remove it entirely, and solder on a solid-core wire with an equivalent-valued leaded resistor, and from the far side of that resistor go off to a DPDT switch and the op-amp inverter.... it might need some de-popping resistors as well.. depends on the circuit. And of course, the inverted signal (post-switch) has to be returned to the far side of R35.

It's certainly worth a little bread-board trial, to see how it sounds.


EDIT :
HUH... I just noticed an un-populated "SW-1" silkscreened about an inch to the left of R35, between it and the op-amps. I wonder if they had a similar idea, but left it out of the final design?
It would be very interesting to find out what SW-1 does.
 
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Messages
35
IFF MXR kept the same resistor names, then R35 is labeled and available. (in second row of components under the second-from-left potentiometer.)
Being SMD, I would prefer to remove it entirely, and solder on a solid-core wire with an equivalent-valued leaded resistor, and from the far side of that resistor go off to a DPDT switch and the op-amp inverter.... it might need some de-popping resistors as well.. depends on the circuit. And of course, the inverted signal (post-switch) has to be returned to the far side of R35.

It's certainly worth a little bread-board trial, to see how it sounds.
All beyond any of my capabilities but thanks so much! I'm actually thinking of finding one of those arion stereo flangers as they literally have that as their default sound by the looks of it. Just wish I could mod my own mxr as it would be a cool thing to do
 




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