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My 10" speakers really "beamy"

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs' started by 2Slick4U, May 23, 2011.

  1. 2Slick4U

    2Slick4U Senior Member

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    Help! I've got a Marshall 1965A 4x10" cabinet loaded with the stock G10L-35 speakers.
    I'm finding that it has these slicing highs when you're in front of the cabinet.

    I've tried Weber Beam Blockers (did weird things to the sound) and made some DIY Tone Bras (like Beam Blockers but has foam in the center to absorb highs instead of reflecting them back to the cone) which improved things a bit.

    I've made the Jay Mitchell foam donuts but I think I misread the directions and made the center hole 3" instead of 2". The donuts seemed to help a bit but not quite as effective as the DIY Tone Bras I'm using now.

    Maybe it's just me. I like the sound of these speakers, but the treble spike is a bit much. This is my first closed-back cabinet so maybe it's a function of closed-back speakers?

    Maybe I should just point the damn thing away from everyone? Not sure what is normal or not here, so give me some advice.

    Thanks,
     
  2. cvaldeski

    cvaldeski Member

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  3. 2Slick4U

    2Slick4U Senior Member

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    I've got the treble and presence down about as low as I can before things start getting muddy. You lower those two too far down, you lose some amp response. This is a rock/blues rig, so it's got to have some bite. I'm good with upper mid "bite" but trying to cut down the high-end "slice."
     
  4. soundchaser59

    soundchaser59 Silver Supporting Member

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    EQ as in an EQ pedal....... I'm a bit surprised you can't tone it down to taste with the tone knobs alone.
    Or put some dark sounding speakers in there......Emi Delta Demons....
     
  5. 2Slick4U

    2Slick4U Senior Member

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    I was thinking about changing the speakers. I think I read that the stock speakers can be harsh. What about the Emi Ramrod?
     
  6. mcv

    mcv Member

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    i also have the same prob....
    anybody has ramrods in this cab?
     
  7. scolfax

    scolfax Supporting Member

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    Weber Beam Blocker?
     
  8. brianr0131

    brianr0131 Member

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    closed back cabs do tend to be punchy and very directional.
     
  9. Rotten

    Rotten Silver Supporting Member

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    I think an Emi Ragin' Cajun would do what you are describing. Dark speakers that come alive when cranked. Never toppy.
     
  10. dspellman

    dspellman Senior Member

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    It's physics. The same thing happens with 4x12s. Generally speaking, the larger the speaker the more it beams. Look at the specs for the K8, K10 and K12 -- the coverage is progressively narrower. And those are just single speakers. An array like a 4x12 or a 4x10 acts like a 30" or 25" speaker (respectively), which is to say it has a very narrow dispersion. Worse, treble tends to beam much more than bass. No amount of beam blocking will help you with that.

    The real solution is a different cabinet. Four 10" speakers in a tall column will act like a line array. That is, they'll have excellent dispersion horizontally, but will beam a bit in the vertical dimension. That's a good thing. You'll also notice that virtually all PA systems these days have vertical columns (often a bit rounded), or line arrays. They cover the audience horizontally very well, but need to be rounded under a bit on the bottom because if they weren't, they wouldn't cover the close seats. There's very little spread above and below a line array. But they do great side to side.

    Line Array:
    [​IMG]

    If you were to take the same four 10" speakers and simply place them in a vertical closed back cabinet, one above the other, you'd pretty much eliminate beaming in the horizontal plane.

    For another example of a line array, take a look at the Bose L1. Small speakers, arrayed one above the other for maximum horizontal coverage.
     
  11. paulydangerous

    paulydangerous Member

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    I agree with the Delta Demons. Darkest 10" speakers I've ever owned. You might like them.
     
  12. soundchaser59

    soundchaser59 Silver Supporting Member

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    But man do they sing sweetly when cranked hard!
     
  13. doublee

    doublee Member

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    Maybe try the Jay Mitchell foam concept.
     
  14. schwa

    schwa Member

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    I think the 1965a is a good cab, but it's not an "at home" cab. At a show most folks won't have the cab pointed directly at them, so any beamyness would be less of and issue. In fact - the presence could be an asset in terms of being heard with the rest of the band.

    That all said, if you're playing at home and it's not working, a speaker change might do the trick. The problem is, replacing 4 speakers (even cheaper 10's) can get expensive.

    I love my 1965a, but at home I tend to use mellower 2x12's. Part of the beauty of using cabs is that you can change the speakers easily.
     
  15. 2Slick4U

    2Slick4U Senior Member

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    Yeah, the speakers actually sound decent at home but at a jam at a friend's house the cab was more pointed to me and sounded pretty harsh.

    I tried the Jay Mitchell foam but I think I did it wrong. I read after that I should have a 2" center hole, where I had a 3" center hole. I'm not sure if it would make that big a difference but you never know.
    I also fabricated some "tone bras" from foam for the center and elmer's foam board from wal-mart. It actually came out pretty damn good and way cheaper than buying the real thing. But like the Weber Beam Blockers, it affects the tone in an unnatural way. I might go revisit the Jay Mitchell donuts.

    I've got a quad of Emi Ragin Cajuns in my old Super Reverb, I could try them in the Marshall cab, but I was thinking that it might not sound "Marshall" enough. Maybe a pair of them in the top two spots?
     
  16. doublee

    doublee Member

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    Yes for 10's the opening in the foam is quite different from 12's ala Jay method, 1/2 " foam and 2' opening in my experience, and also 10's are less beamy than 12's to begin with so require a more gentle application
     

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