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My Echopark Guitars Nightmare

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JP59

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229
I don't know about the guitars. I've never played one but doubt with all these testimonials from what seems to be sincere people I would want one and all the problems.

I do own a Echopark Vibromatic 13 1X12 amp built on 10-31-16. I replaced the speaker with a British made Celestion G25M and NOS tubes. It's a beast. With a D*A*M* Red Rooster and a Burst LP...It's more Marshally sounding than my friends Marshall amp. For a two 6V6 power section it's almost too loud believe it or not. The inside electronics are laid out nice and clean. Cabinet is a work of art and built really well. I guess he doesn't make the amps??
 

lifeson1

Silver Supporting Member
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2,822
I don't know about the guitars. I've never played one but doubt with all these testimonials from what seems to be sincere people I would want one and all the problems.

I do own a Echopark Vibromatic 13 1X12 amp built on 10-31-16. I replaced the speaker with a British made Celestion G25M and NOS tubes. It's a beast. With a D*A*M* Red Rooster and a Burst LP...It's more Marshally sounding than my friends Marshall amp. For a two 6V6 power section it's almost too loud believe it or not. The inside electronics are laid out nice and clean. Cabinet is a work of art and built really well. I guess he doesn't make the amps??
that would be correct!! He does NOT make the amps
 

cosmic_ape

Silver Supporting Member
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6,514
Well, if Gabe is indeed strategically naming and releasing pedals to obfuscate Google search results, there is something we could do.

We could contact the OP (@Crshngdstryr, are you listening?) and ask him to keep changing this thread’s title. Every time a new pedal is released, we add a different adjective to the title.

You could get a whole line of pedals that way:

“Scam Artist” Tremolo.
“Incompetent Luthier” Overdrive.
“Narcissistic A-hole” Delay.

The options are endless, really.
 

malibu23wake

Member
Messages
105
If I never see those guitars again it will be too soon. I can hardly wait to rid myself of them.
I agree I had one or two over the years that were actually pretty unique, I cant say well made, but I think everything accidently came together right on these. Even though they were pretty cool I could not wait to finally rid myself of everything Echopark branded. Even gave my tshirt away. :D
 

MikeMcK

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
4,911
The fellow that took Satellite’s White Amp schematic and made an Echopark White Amp that Gaabe touted as faithfully re-created like the original. :mad:
So, a thief, then?
Well, there are a couple of layers to pull apart here. Satellite’s White Amp is a re-creation of the "White High Fidelity" amps built by Fender (but branded "White") in the '60's. These were made to be sold to music schools at wholesale prices (but without undercutting by bearing the Fender brand). Leo being Leo, and not exactly a spendthrift, used an existing circuit with different cosmetics. So the original White High Fidelity was really an early Princeton with an 8" speaker.
 

PhilB61

Member
Messages
87
Well, there are a couple of layers to pull apart here. Satellite’s White Amp is a re-creation of the "White High Fidelity" amps built by Fender (but branded "White") in the '60's. These were made to be sold to music schools at wholesale prices (but without undercutting by bearing the Fender brand). Leo being Leo, and not exactly a spendthrift, used an existing circuit with different cosmetics. So the original White High Fidelity was really an early Princeton with an 8" speaker.

Ah, thanks for the clarification. I mean, clones are certainly a grey area, and there can only be so many ways to make amplification circuits. When you start using the same name is when I get a little more on the "that's stealing" side.
 

nowhere

Member
Messages
965
I don't know about the guitars. I've never played one but doubt with all these testimonials from what seems to be sincere people I would want one and all the problems.

I do own a Echopark Vibromatic 13 1X12 amp built on 10-31-16. I replaced the speaker with a British made Celestion G25M and NOS tubes. It's a beast. With a D*A*M* Red Rooster and a Burst LP...It's more Marshally sounding than my friends Marshall amp. For a two 6V6 power section it's almost too loud believe it or not. The inside electronics are laid out nice and clean. Cabinet is a work of art and built really well. I guess he doesn't make the amps??
There's been one EP amp customer who has posted in this thread (yeredhouse pg.58). It was the "Producer" model. He said it was functionally OK and sounded good but the tolex was peeling off. When he asked about getting the problem rectified Gabe first apparently gave him a snotty "How bad does it affect the tone?" response and then only after some of that typical EP sterling customer relations was it taken back to be corrected. Note that this came from Gabe, yeredhouse said that the amp builder himself behaved professionally and was apologetic for the problems when it was brought to his attention. No complaints about the functional aspects though. The amp pictures I've seen of ones for sale online seem to have pretty consistent cosmetics so perhaps the poor covering job on that particular amp was an outlier - unlike the abundance of EP guitars with easily visible flaws and defects.

I see EP is still saying of their "Clarence 25" amp with an 8 Ohm internal speaker that "our custom spec output transformers can handle 100% mismatched loads" which, taken literally would mean you could feed it into any load from 16 Ohms down to 0 Ohms (a.k.a. a dead short) with no problem. I know what they're really trying to say is that it's OK to plug an extension cab into it - but that's been true of Fenders and many other amps for sixty plus years now.
 

Mr Fingers

Member
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2,543
Nothing from EP obviously, but these threads do serve an important purpose in informing potential EP customers what may be in store for them.
Yup. I am amazed that we're still seeing numerous reports of sloppiness. I don't look for flaws and generally am on the lookout for things to like, not things to criticize, but nevertheless was looking at some Echopark posting and the guitar on display had a few opbious mis-fits (of the same kind noted frequently in this endless thread). My MIM beater Strat has a cleaner build. I love independent shops and builders. My "best" guitar is a Versoul Henry. Every bit of that instrument is finely made, and there's no way Kari Niemenen (or Juha Ruokangas, or any of the other major independent builders) would put out anything but their best work. It's not fussiness -- it's a devotion to things done well. Who cuts corners? Yeesh.
 

SatelliteAmps

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6,186
A fellow who used to work for Satellite and then Revival amps... they are built well.
The fellow that took Satellite’s White Amp schematic and made an Echopark White Amp that Gaabe touted as faithfully re-created like the original. :mad:
So, a thief, then?
Well, there are a couple of layers to pull apart here. Satellite’s White Amp is a re-creation of the "White High Fidelity" amps built by Fender (but branded "White") in the '60's. These were made to be sold to music schools at wholesale prices (but without undercutting by bearing the Fender brand). Leo being Leo, and not exactly a spendthrift, used an existing circuit with different cosmetics. So the original White High Fidelity was really an early Princeton with an 8" speaker.

To answer all of this really deserves a separate thread and I would hate to have this sidetracked off topic. Its not a pretty tale. Eric Bernstorff used to work at Satellite Amplifiers, and as far as I understand, is the guy building all the amplifiers for EchoPark (he also built the Revival amplifiers). At least he was, we haven't spoken in years.
 

cholula69

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
992
To answer all of this really deserves a separate thread and I would hate to have this sidetracked off topic. Its not a pretty tale. Eric Bernstorff used to work at Satellite Amplifiers, and as far as I understand, is the guy building all the amplifiers for EchoPark (he also built the Revival amplifiers). At least he was, we haven't spoken in years.
There are two things that always come up with people who had business dealings with Echopark:
1. There is some sort of deception.
2. It never ends well.

There you have it in a nutshell.
 

nowhere

Member
Messages
965
I don't look for flaws and generally am on the lookout for things to like, not things to criticize
That's my tendency too, especially when the overall design is something I like to begin with. It amazes me that there are so many EP's about that have bad enough flaws that they jump right out at me on first viewing of a fairly small web image.

On the other hand there are builders out there whose instruments I enjoy looking at in as much detail as possible as I keep finding new examples of superb craftsmanship or ingenious design the closer I look - Thorn would be an example, and one I wasn't aware of until he was brought up in this thread as what a small production, high end builder could and should be. Heck, I even remember the relatively inexpensive and plain Hamer Eclipse I owned years ago - even the inside of the control cavity of that guitar was immaculate!
 
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