My experience transitioning from solderless to soldered cables

Discussion in 'Effects, Pedals, Strings & Things' started by john l, Jun 22, 2019.

  1. john l

    john l Supporting Member

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    The following is 100% my opinion and experience. After trying out a few different systems Ive come the conclusion that when it comes to solderless the only game in town are the types that utlize solid core cable with thread cutting plugs. I personally have only dealt with the Evidence Audio SIS and can say that of the bajillions of connections Ive made with it I have had zero failures and the boards have all had acceptable noise floors.

    Now having said that.... one cant help but notice that NONE of the big name pedal board and rack system builders utilize solderless systems. In my my research (super fast google) Mogami 2319 or equivalent along with either Switchcraft ends or the newer Redco SP400/500s are really the industry standard. The common consensus among the pros seems to be that solderless is really a consumer thing. For people like me these little tidbits seriously screw with my guitar rig OCD especially since I was asked to do a few boards for people other then myself this year under the impression that I did a pro level job with pro level materials.

    I decided I wanted to experiment a little with this using my own board so I ordered a bunch of 2319 and SP-500s tore into it....

    Disclaimer I could have made this look a lot cleaner but because I wanted to accommodate future pedal changes I opted to leave some slack behind so that runs could grow or shrink a bit as needed without messing everything up.

    Anyway here she is all dudded up....

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]



    You have to be careful with this sort of thing because its really easy to fabricate psycho acoustic "improvement" after investing significant performing somewhat tedious work but I think I'm a good candidate to do this comparison because Im also quite the fan of Evidence Audio and have loved the SIS system since I first started using it almost 2 years ago. In short I would be perfectly happy with the results either way I just wanted to put this thing to bed for my own piece of mind.

    The results?..... I prefer the 2319 and SP500s by a good margin. The two things that jumped out at me right off the bat were that there was a noticeable difference in what was to me an already acceptable noise floor as well as a notable improvement in not clarity. Everything has a just a tad more sparkle around it that lends itself well to both clean and dirty tones.

    The thing that dawned one me after the fact is that this is really and apples to Volkswagens comparison as nothing is the same.... This test simply proves that I personally prefer Mogami and SP500s NOT that soldered is better than solderless lol. You cant compare two meals made from different ingredients to each other but you can have a lot of fun trying. Hope you enjoyed me spinning my wheels.
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2019
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  2. hippieboy

    hippieboy Member

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    Does dan from Gigrig/TPS does not count as a big pedalboard builder? I seriously ask about it cause I don't know about those kind of things, I've always been under the impression he is, cause he has built boards for Ed O'brien (Radiohead), Matt Schofield, Andy timmons, etc and he uses Evidence SIS.

    Who are the big names?
     
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  3. Flatscan

    Flatscan Supporting Member

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    I immediately thought of Dan and his strong endorsement of EA SIS also.

    None of this is dogma. Use what works for you. I use both.
     
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  4. john l

    john l Supporting Member

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    Love Dan! He's actually the reason I tried Evidence in the first place but although he puts together the occasional board for a star he makes his money off the The Gigrigs wonderful line of products not building boards. I consider the big boys to be Dave Friedman who still runs "Rack Systems" ,LA Sound Design, Bradshaw etc... I think of these guys as some of the heavy hitters that actually make they living doing this stuff. Theres also the @RACKDOCTOR and @jnepo1 who build professionally and post there killer boards here and they never utilize solderless either. Maybe one of them could chime in with they're thoughts on this.
     
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  5. kriko71

    kriko71 Member

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    The pro UK rig builders that are in the same game as Bob Bradshaw, Dave Friedman or Dave Phillips to me are Pete Cornish and Mike Hill.
     
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  6. kriko71

    kriko71 Member

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    RACKDOCTOR = Dave Phillips / LA Sound Design.
     
  7. kriko71

    kriko71 Member

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    SP400/SP500 are not Redco's, they're sold by Redco and others in the US. They are designed and manufactured by KMMK Solutions under the brand name SquarePlug
     
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  8. john l

    john l Supporting Member

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    Neat. I would have mentioned Cornish but Ive only ever seen the crazy stuff he does where the pedals are housed in the board itself so he's kind of in a different category in my opinion. Ill check in to Mike Hill. Thanks for the heads up
     
  9. hippieboy

    hippieboy Member

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    thanks for the info!
     
  10. Flatscan

    Flatscan Supporting Member

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    Without diminishing any of the other mentioned assemblers, Dan having multiple sources of income doesn't make him any less "big." Further, I'm highly confident that we don't know his full client list or the extent of his activities.

    Dan's involvement with GigRig is not relevant to the question posed by the OP.

    Dan also plays in bands, sessions, and gigs. Is he not a musician because of his involvement in GigRig or his pedalboard assembly business?

    The logic, and especially the hyperbole employed (i.e., "NONE"), is not convincing.


    There are lots of ways to play an "E" chord. I'm not sure why any of us would conclude that there is only one smart way to build a pedalboard.

    In each case, the approach(es) chosen should pend context.


    Regardless, I love these "all or nothing" threads. They never cease to make me smile.
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2019
  11. thesjkexperienc

    thesjkexperienc ^^^ I made this guitar^^^ Supporting Member

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    One persons clarity is another’s loss of low end. LoL

    I love using Lyric HG on my board, but found running much shorter cables with SIS to about balance out any losses with the thinner cable.
     
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  12. hippieboy

    hippieboy Member

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    genius!! haha
     
  13. JackfromAK

    JackfromAK Gold Supporting Member

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    I enjoy reading all solderless v solder threads. I'm definitely interested in at least trying soldered cable sometime in the future. However, my board is stable for maybe two days at a time at most (which is still better than its owner) so I don't even build the George L's I have parts and cable for.
     
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  14. john l

    john l Supporting Member

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    sigh...Glad to make you smile. Im not quite sure how this became an all or nothing thing but I suppose this was inevitable here. Wish I had some kind of party bag for you.

    If I edited my OP to say "hardly any" would that get you to see the forest from the tree your fixated on? No one is taking any shots at Dan or Evidence Audio. I decided to spin my wheels on my board because of some observations I noticed from the pros and liked where I ended up. This was clearly explained.

    I own and use 2 remote loopy 2s, a cinco cinco and a humdinger I love Dans designs but thats what I consider him a designer and manufacturer of gear. My focus was on the guys that have been in the game for a long time that do hundreds of boards a year for touring musicians. If you feel that my observation was "not convincing" by all means throw out all the other builders using solderless systems Im spacing out on?
     
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  15. jimijimmyjeffy

    jimijimmyjeffy Member

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    interesting. I think jnepo uses evidence cables generally.
     
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  16. john l

    john l Supporting Member

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    Part of my inspiration for this was going through the "Neatest Pedalboard thread" where he and rack doctor post and of the 100 or so boards he posted there I saw 2 that utilized evidence. Makes me think that they were customer requests but I have no way of knowing.
     
  17. jimijimmyjeffy

    jimijimmyjeffy Member

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    Well,
    jnepo was one of the people who turned me on to Evidence, and may even be a dealer for them, but not sure regarding boards.
     
  18. Flatscan

    Flatscan Supporting Member

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    Your personal and anecdotal experience coupled with your presumption per the behavior of a few pedalboard assemblers does not give you insight into hundreds of touring musicians.

    But hey, speculate away.

    Regardless, of course you're not taking shots at Dan (he's just a gear builder; who is Radiohead anyway?) or EA (I never had a failure! Low noise floor!).

    I'm glad you like soldered cables. I use them too. I also use solderless. Both have their place.
     
  19. john l

    john l Supporting Member

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    Im honestly not even sure what it is your trying to say you're so clever. You do know that trying to put words in someones mouth doest work well in text right? Do you not understand what a noise floor is and how cables can add or take a way from it? Is there something wrong with never having an EA cable go bad? Take your meds man.. mental health is a really important thing to maintain.
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2019
  20. pete692

    pete692 Silver Supporting Member

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    I moved away from solderless after twenty years because I had more than a few fail on me, not a ton, but enough to be considered a PITA. After the switch, which I made for the reliability issue only, I immediately noticed what the OP is talking about. I’m not preaching one way over the other, but I’m definitely satisfied with my current cabling.
     
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