My first negative thread/el84's

alainguitars

Member
Messages
610
Let me start by saying everyone has their own taste in tone and I respect it.
I've tried most el84 amps you can think of looking for a vintage Marshall type tone. Never found it. I'm not going to mention builders. The only kudos I have to give are for the Cornell 45/50 which was a kt66/el34 amp. That had the tone. I hate el 84's in anything from Blues Juniors to 18 watt clones. They sound like chalk on a blackboard to me. Overly bright in the upper mids and no real cream.
So, besides the Germino Masonette, who makes a Marshall combo with different tubes. I was going to try the Blockhead firstborn, but it also uses el 84's and I've never found an amp I liked with them so I passed. Am I the only one who has a problem with these tubes? I've heard nice recorded clips done with el84's, but I've never heard one live that I liked.
 

doctord02

Member
Messages
1,061
So, tell us how you really feel?

;)

To be honest, if you want the Marshall sound, you buy a Marshall. That means either an EL34 or a KT66 powered amp. Trying to get that sound out of different tubes is folly in my book. But then again, I love the sound of the 18 watt amp. I also love the sound of an AC30.

Maybe look at some of the JCM800 combos, or a well tweeked Bluesbreaker.
 

sinasl1

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
8,697
I love the AC30 sound, I had a great Top Hat King Royale that I used for years..

but I must say, allthough I've never played through one, I really don't get the whole 18 watt Marshall craze, I haven't heard a single clip I've liked! That design just sounds harsh and grainy to me in every clip out there. I'll have to try one I guess.. that new 2061 Marshall head does sound good in the clips I've heard though..
 

lannyhall

Member
Messages
1,279
Are you looking for the 18watt el84 Marshall sound, or the more traditional EL34 Marshall sound?

I happen to love many amps that use EL84s, but to each his own. I don't think I would be expecting vintage Marshall tones from an EL84-based amp.
 

Mike

Member
Messages
2,539
alainguitars said:
So, besides the Germino Masonette, who makes a Marshall combo with different tubes.
Germino Classic 45. KT66's. This one is for sale in the Emporium.


Mike
 

alainguitars

Member
Messages
610
Harsh and grainy are exactly what I'm reffering to. If I where you,I would not base a purchase on clips. I've been there. Clips can be very deceiving.
 

ericb

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
9,442
lannyhall said:
Are you looking for the 18watt el84 Marshall sound, or the more traditional EL34 Marshall sound?

I happen to love many amps that use EL84s, but to each his own. I don't think I would be expecting vintage Marshall tones from an EL84-based amp.
I would never expect those tones from EL84's either!!! BUT I have an old 80's rare ENGL that uses them , that I LOVE the hi-gain and cleans on . But with most amps they're raspy , and I think that's what you don't like. Just stick with el34's 70's and 80's Marshalls , or something like the THD's.

ERIC
 

axpro

Member
Messages
628
I love el84's... But, like most 84 fans, I really like ac-30's and matchless amps... something about that jangley top end...

Dave
 

alainguitars

Member
Messages
610
RE: The bluesbreaker suggestion. I owned one and it was stock. Gotta say it's the best recorded live tone I've ever gotten, and the amp was only on 3! ( I pushed the front end with a maxxon 808) Sold it because of the weight. Not the ideal amp for lugging around to jams or small/short gigs. Someone should build one with a lighter cab. That's the ticket. Sounded equally great with Fenders and Gibsons.
 

Scott_F

Member
Messages
2,984
there are numerous JTM45/Plexi clones out there. Run EL34's or KT66's and you'll get that tone. If you go with a head, you can then get a nice 1x12 or 2x12 and get lower weight split up.

 

riffmeister

Member
Messages
16,596
alainguitars said:
Am I the only one who has a problem with these tubes?
For my louder Rock Group, I've found I need bigger bottle amps......just something about the additional girth and low end punch that is needed at higher volumes (to my ear).

For lower volume stuff, though, I've been very happy with EL84 amps.....TopHat CLub Royale in particular.
 

sanhozay

klon free since 2009
Gold Supporting Member
Messages
11,668
alainguitars said:
I hate el 84's in anything from Blues Juniors to 18 watt clones. They sound like chalk on a blackboard to me. Overly bright in the upper mids and no real cream.

I think that's called chime...:BOUNCE

The Victoriette & Victorilux are very creamy sounding amps.
 

Jon Silberman

10Q Jerry & Dickey
Gold Supporting Member
Messages
41,427
OMG - just think of how much better the Beatles could have sounded without those pesky EL84s :eek:

:D

P.S. I have 2 amps with a pair of 6L6s, 1 with a pair of EL84s, 1 with a pair of EL34s, and 1 with a quad of 6V6s because ... drum roll ... man does not live on [insert tube #]s alone.
 

HeeHaw

Member
Messages
4,960
alainguitars said:
Harsh and grainy are exactly what I'm reffering to. If I where you,I would not base a purchase on clips. I've been there. Clips can be very deceiving.

I have had prolly 60 people at my church and other gigs tell me that they dig the tone of my Reinhardt Titan I used there. Many were guitar players, many were not. Go figure.

:JAM
 

pirateflynn

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
1,815
Both of your own suggestions are very good ones.......

Germino Masonette and Blockhead Firstborn

In my opinion, the Masonette is a little dryer sounding than the Firstborn. Both are excellent amps for medium volume Marshall tone.

Good luck.
 

ZiggY!!

Member
Messages
163
alainguitars said:
Let me start by saying everyone has their own taste in tone and I respect it.
I've tried most el84 amps you can think of looking for a vintage Marshall type tone. Never found it. I'm not going to mention builders. The only kudos I have to give are for the Cornell 45/50 which was a kt66/el34 amp. That had the tone. I hate el 84's in anything from Blues Juniors to 18 watt clones. They sound like chalk on a blackboard to me. Overly bright in the upper mids and no real cream.
So, besides the Germino Masonette, who makes a Marshall combo with different tubes. I was going to try the Blockhead firstborn, but it also uses el 84's and I've never found an amp I liked with them so I passed. Am I the only one who has a problem with these tubes? I've heard nice recorded clips done with el84's, but I've never heard one live that I liked.

I never liked the sound or feel of any strat until one glorious day I picked up a fender american deluxe... It felt different to the others. More comfortable... and the sound was terrific! It felt right contrary to my initial expectations...

Since that day i've learnt to not judge the entire book by its cover as they say... as some parts might actually defy previous expectations.

There are a hell of a lot of EL84 based amps out there... It seems a little niave to create an opinion on every single amp using EL84's just from the ones you have played.
 

Red Planet

Member
Messages
4,347
Hey Scott F thats a gorgeous Amp!

Bet it sounds good. Do you make your own cabs? What kind oif wood is that?

If I didnt have so many freakin amps I'd be tempted to try one of those.

Sorry for the Derail.

I dont know about not liking the EL84's. I like em.

I have an amp called the Balls M-18 that runs those dudes and the "Marshall" Tone floating out of that dude is unreal. www.ballsamps.com Its a perfect gigging and recording Amp not to unrully on the Volume and Tons of great sounds. This Amp with a 52 reissue Tele in it to Quote Danny Gork (The Builder and a guy whos played every guitar imanginable through his Amps) " Thats as good as it gets" You should have heard the compliments he was dishing out on the combination.

My point is I dont know what you could find wrong with that sound. Though you may not have played one of these Babys. :D

Now dont get me wrong there are some EL84 Amps out there that sound like arse to me. I bought an 18 watt 2x12 combo with G12H30's in it that was supposed to be the sh*t. I'm not gonna trash em here but it wasnt nothing special. FYI it wasnt an 18 clone. It was the crudest piece of crap sounding amp I've ever heard. In a nice Pretty Red Cab. I tried different tubes, different speakers, different rectifiers Tube and SS, but nothing seemed to help it. It was a piece of Crap.

I finally ditched it and for the better.

There may be some EL84's out there that you like. Then again I'm with you on stuff that dont cut the Mustard. When something dont work for me it dont work thats it.
 

dbeeman

Platinum Supporting Member
Messages
5,904
Alain;

Try the 18 watt Aiken Invader or Intruder

Wonderful Marshall Plexi and Ali tones from those el84s

for cleans the Cage 18/00 or Corsa - chime without harshness or upper mid "glare"


There are others I like as well, but not fitting your specs
 




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