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My floyd rose keeps going out of tune

Fowleri

Senior Member
Messages
405
In the first photo, what's going on with that area just to the left of the screw? It looks like part of the plate has broken off? Since yours is a black bridge, you can see the wear on the knife edge fairly easily where it pivots on the bolt.

As far as the angle, one likely possibility is that the original owner had it tuned to a lower tuning than you do. For example, if he had it tuned down 1/2 step to D# standard (very common tuning) and you tuned it to E-standard without adjusting the trem, that will cause the tilt you're seeing.
are you referring to that white stuff that looks like a worm? i have no idea what that is, could it be part of the knife edge wearing off? what is the plate? I don't understand what that is. Is that part of the knife edge?
 

Fowleri

Senior Member
Messages
405
Ever since I bought this guitar, I always had this feeling in the back of my mind that something is wrong with it, always going out of tune just slightly. I tried a new one at one point, I actually bought a new one just to check, played for a few days and it wasn't going out of tune like this one, returned it. At first, I assumed it was because other people owned it, maybe they messed up the position of something and just needs a setup?

but I'm beginning to doubt that, I think this guitar has something wrong with it that came from the factory, something they did wrong, maybe messed up the positioning of a post, maybe the post hole drilling was done wrong or something and is a lemon lol

how come the new guitar, with no setup, same model I tried, didn't go out of tune like this one does
 

Fowleri

Senior Member
Messages
405
Then you need to go through the process to determine if it is in fact a lemon.

You seem to have decided you have a lemon and seem to be wanting someone to validate that. We cannot do that over the interwebz... at least not credibly.

Even if it is a “lemon”, anything going on with the tremolo is correctable.
not fully correctable unless you do some drilling, for example, if the post hole were done wrong, this would need redrilling and refilling a whole **** job, and yeah ill take this to a "younger" tech who has more experience with trem systems lol but i dont know i always had this feeling something is wrong with this guitar as it has never stayed in tune as so many people claim their floyd system does after proper tuning and locking

id rather just sell it and buy a new one without cosmetic issues too

is not a matter of money here, I can pay for a new one, but i was too stupid trying to save a buck and bought used

shouldve bought from that guy ibanezrules and i probably wouldnt be having these issues
 

CanuckChris

Member
Messages
1,496
are you referring to that white stuff that looks like a worm? i have no idea what that is, could it be part of the knife edge wearing off? what is the plate? I don't understand what that is. Is that part of the knife edge?
Could be just a piece of fluff that caught the reflection of the camera flash. In any case, it just stood out.

I'm more familiar with the Floyd Rose, but I believe the Edge trem is a similar concept. Handy exploded parts diagram for a FR here:



The tremolo base plate is the part that wears out on the knife edges (where they sit against the mounting stud or screw and pivot when you use the trem). You would need to replace that base plate, and might as well replace the mounting studs while you're at it to basically bring it back to new.

9 times out of 10 this is the issue for a guitar that goes out of tune, assuming you have the rest of the system properly set-up (screws tight, trem level, etc.). Given it's a used guitar, it's definitely worthwhile having that checked out.
 

CanuckChris

Member
Messages
1,496
not fully correctable unless you do some drilling, for example, if the post hole were done wrong, this would need redrilling and refilling a whole **** job, and yeah ill take this to a "younger" tech who has more experience with trem systems lol but i dont know i always had this feeling something is wrong with this guitar as it has never stayed in tune as so many people claim their floyd system does after proper tuning and locking

id rather just sell it and buy a new one without cosmetic issues too

is not a matter of money here, I can pay for a new one, but i was too stupid trying to save a buck and bought used

shouldve bought from that guy ibanezrules and i probably wouldnt be having these issues
Sure, you can sell it and buy a new one, but at some point, you'll run into the same issues unless you do regular maintenance including the bridge. Point being, this could be a good learning opportunity. Troubleshoot it, figure out the issue, repair it if it's reasonable, and in the end be much better prepared if/when a similar issue pops up in the future.
 

Fowleri

Senior Member
Messages
405
The only thing I am seeing that may be a defect is circled in this photo... but it also could be fuzz, perspective, or lighting:



I am unsure of what that is.
probably just keratin, piece of skin or something, i removed it
 

disconnector

It's been swell, but the swelling's gone down.
Gold Supporting Member
Messages
1,777
Here are a couple of reasons your guitar can go consistently flat with an Edge trem. Check these things before you move on!

1. Be *sure* the nut is toght. If it moves at all the guitar will never come back to tune. It only takes a very small movement to cause an issue. Remove it, clean up the nut pocket, and tighten it back down.

1.5. Be sure the nut clamp screws aren’t bottoming out and pushing the nut up. This is a old-school Jackson problem but check anyway.

2. Make sure the nut clamps are actually making contact with the strings and placing pressure. If they aren’t the guitar will go flat when you dive bomb it. If the nut clamps are installed incorrectly this can happen. It can also happen if the nut screws are bottoming out (see 1.5).

3. Make sure the studs are not loose. Remove the trem and wiggle them. If they move much (they will move a little due to thread tolerances) you may have blown out trem studs. Does the stud insert move at all? If you have locking studs make sure they are locked.

4. Check the knife edges on the trem. If they are dull or flat the guitar will come up flat after a dive bomb and sharp after a pull up.

5. This is very unlikely but check your springs. A bad spring can cause pitch return issues. This drove me batsh1t crazy on my RG 760 in the 90s.

6. Be sure the trem is flat. Go to Ibanezrules.com and check out the pics. While you’re there read everything in the tech section. Rich will 100% sort you out.

That’s my checklist for pitch return issues. Floyd Roses (and Edge trems) are the original Evertunes - I literally tune my Jem about once a month or so and I play the heck out of it.
 

Fowleri

Senior Member
Messages
405
Sure, you can sell it and buy a new one, but at some point, you'll run into the same issues unless you do regular maintenance including the bridge. Point being, this could be a good learning opportunity. Troubleshoot it, figure out the issue, repair it if it's reasonable, and in the end be much better prepared if/when a similar issue pops up in the future.
That's why I'm going to take to another tech to take a look at, then based on that I'll make a decision.

Well, if this guitar already had issues from the factory, then is unlikely I will the same issues with a new one.

I've been trying to troubleshoot this for weeks, already took it to a tech for setup, didn't help much if at all, so I'll take it to another, I don't know if is truly a lemon or not, but if two people sold it, there is a high possibility

the fact that it was sold on GC is also suspicious, that means it was not being sold as a return but as a third party, so probably 3 people owned it before. I messaged the seller who sold me this guitar about the tuning issues before and he disappeared never responded
 

CanuckChris

Member
Messages
1,496
5. This is very unlikely but check your springs. A bad spring can cause pitch return issues. This drove me batsh1t crazy on my RG 760 in the 90s.
I've wondered if a spring can go bad, but after owning dozens of guitars over the years, I figured I was just being paranoid. What does a bad spring look/sound like?
 

disconnector

It's been swell, but the swelling's gone down.
Gold Supporting Member
Messages
1,777
That's why I'm going to take to another tech to take a look at, then based on that I'll make a decision.

Well, if this guitar already had issues from the factory, then is unlikely I will the same issues with a new one.

I've been trying to troubleshoot this for weeks, already took it to a tech for setup, didn't help much if at all, so I'll take it to another, I don't know if is truly a lemon or not, but if two people sold it, there is a high possibility

the fact that it was sold on GC is also suspicious, that means it was not being sold as a return but as a third party, so probably 3 people owned it before. I messaged the seller who sold me this guitar about the tuning issues before and he disappeared never responded
But if you fix it you will have gotten a great deal on an awesome guitar. Don’t give it up yet - keep working at it!
 

Fowleri

Senior Member
Messages
405
But if you fix it you will have gotten a great deal on an awesome guitar. Don’t give it up yet - keep working at it!
I don't know but I bought this guitar used for $650, which is very low as it usually sells used on ebay for $750-900, check it out, it has a couple of dings but still that alone is suspicious, it was the cheapest rg550 genesis ive seen on ebay since then and i follow the search on ebay

second, the guy bought who sold it to me, bought it used from guitar center. Guitar center doesn't even sell used items or carries this particular model in their stores, so a person was selling on guitar center, did this person buy the guitar used or new?

If he bought used, this means 3 people owned and sold it.
 

Fowleri

Senior Member
Messages
405
Since you seem absolutely convinced that it is a lemon, I would be willing to take this defective guitar that presumably needs serious work done to it off your hands for $450.
I wouldn't accept anything more than what I got it from $650. So who knows if is a lemon or not, but if I had bought new from rich ibanezrules, I wouldn't be having this issue and like I said, I actually bought a new one from guitar center online just to test it, i kept the guitar for 1 week before returning it, that whole week, not once that new guitar went out of tune. I returned it cause I was only testing it

but it was then when i was convinced there was something wrong with mine like from the factory

How can this be? New guitar with no setup stays in tune perfectly while my used guitar never did even after a setup
 

Fowleri

Senior Member
Messages
405
You laugh, but seriously I was making a point. If you have a guitar that you truly believe to is a lemon, you can only list it as “poor“ condition. To do otherwise would make you “that seller”.

Check Reverb. The only RG550 in poor condition that has sold there went for $215.

You are painting yourself into a corner with your “lemon” fixation.

If your guitar is a lemon and you are honest in your listing, you are not getting $650.
My guitar is not in poor condition, but there is probably something wrong with it. Explain how come, I buy a new one from guitar center online and it stays perfectly in tune for one week. Yes, I tested both the new and used for tuning stability while I had the new one. Not once the new one went out of tune, not even a line on the headstock tuner.

Yet the used one, in all these months I had, it has never stayed in tune regardless of what I tried, it always goes slightly out of tune, I go for a setup thinking is all it needs and it still goes out of tune.

A new one with no setup stays perfectly in tune while my used one with setup doesn't.

Now look at this guy, I wonder if that is my issue and if it can be fixed? if two techs and the third tech couldnt find it and had to do lots of research i mean

I always had this feeling my guitar has something wrong with especially after I tried the new one. I'm practical man, why deal with crap when i can just sell and buy new from ibanezrules


solo.png
 

Fowleri

Senior Member
Messages
405
If it is a lemon it is in poor condition. Straight from Reverb:


Requirement #1 for a functional musical instrument is that it can be tuned and reasonably hold tune. Yours by your statements cannot. So yes, by definition if your guitar cannot hold tune and needs to have new mounting holes drilled it is in poor condition. If it cannot hold tune it has a definite functional problem and is by definition in poor condition.

The condition includes the function of the instrument, not just the aesthetics.
this assumes I would be selling on Reverb. You can get more money on Reverb, but it takes forever to sell. I would sell it on ebay. Why should I be truthful about a tuning issue when I got screwed by someone else who made me waste time and money? Its it unfair? Yes.

If this guitar is truly a lemon, the guy who I bought it from, should have received $250 rather than my $650, so he basically ripped me off, so why should I be the "better man" and accept $250 just for the sake of being "honest" and having a good conscience and karma?

Sad fact of life but people are usually not honest especially on the internet, and especially when it comes to dealing with money. I know plenty of people who have been screwed on ebay buying used items especially instruments from sellers who clearly knew they had problems.

"Be the change you want to see in the world"

If only that were true.
 

Fowleri

Senior Member
Messages
405
That is on you. You made a bad deal. So now your buyers have to eat your crappy deal?

My son convinced me to buy a friends guitar site unseen before the kid left for college. An Ibanez Jem. Turned out it was a bonafide chibanez. I ate it. I took the guitar apart. Chopped it up. Learned a lot about guitars by completely deconstructing the guitar. Removed the fretboard from the neck. Stripped the finish. Then reassemled, refinished, and setup the instrument. I made a bad deal and I was not going to screw someone else.

You’ll probably get returns when you sell it anyway. So you’ll ultimately eat the money one way or another, just with a lot of added drama and effort.

Peace. Out.
Well, if you sell on ebay under no returns, then is not returns. Reverb has more strict rules when it comes to that. Also, the tuning issue with this guitar is very subtle as it goes out of tune just slightly 1 or 2 bars flat off the center note, so is not very noticeable unless you have good ears and are constantly checking the tuner after every time you play.

I don't know man. I'm not rich, I'm not going to sell this guitar for cheap and eat up all my loses when I will have to buy a new one. I will probably list it lower than what I paid like $500-550, but no way I'm selling it for $300
 

fenderjapan

WCW World Heavyweight Champion
Gold Supporting Member
Messages
4,848
The OPs guitar has a Ibanez Edge trem. Functionally and set concepts and procedures are identical to a Floyd. One thing to check, and it is a common thing, make sure the lock nut mounting screws are tight. These screws being loose will cause the nut to move around on the shelf causing tuning issues even while locked. A SUPER COMMON issue IME.
While this is true there are enough differences to make it worth mentioning that we are talking Edge trems and not Floyds. Edges have seperate knife edges from the baseplate. They have locking studs. Anchor stud sleeves. Variances in bass and treble side knife edges. I know it sounds like nitpicking but there is a reason there are special tools and parts used to work on guitars with Edges.
 

IanRubbish

Member
Messages
385
I have an edge on a J-Custom and couldn't get it to stay in tune, seems I was tightening the nut too much, it's been working better since I hand tightened the nut screws, I had been cranking em down.
 




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