My scumback is fried!!

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs' started by goodertone, Mar 27, 2008.

  1. goodertone

    goodertone Member

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    This is the first guitar speaker I ever toasted. 80 watt shiva into a 65 watt speaker. Master volume at about 11:00. I'm bummed.:(

    For all you shiva users out there, the h75 scumback works really well. It's warm,almost as tight as the cl80 that came stock, and also adds a nice vintage vibe. Works great clean or dirty! JUST USE MORE THAN ONE SPEAKER!
     
  2. Scumback Speakers

    Scumback Speakers Gold Supporting Member

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    Yeah, it happens. Sorry!

    My guess is your amp puts out it's full 80 watts early, like around 10:00 on your volume dial.

    Here's a piece of advice for you, though...I just got done testing the new 100 watt voice coils Weber came out with recently and they sound pretty much identical to the 65 watt models. Send it back to Weber to be reconed at 1/2 price, but specify the 100 watt voice coil. And don't twist the volume past 1:00 when you get it back.

    As I have said many, many times here and elsewhere online... tube amps are conservatively rated. They usually exceed their stated output by 4-5 on the volume knob (11-12:00), and then get louder with more gain after that. So your 80 watt amp can probably put out 80 clean, and 140 dimed.

    goodertone, let me know if there's any problem with filling out the recone form and all that. Weber will do the recone for 1/2 price since it's a Weber built speaker, but make sure to specify the 100 watt voice coil this time around.

    Email me if there are any issues.
     
  3. Rev2S

    Rev2S Member

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    Take a left on Hudgens Rd, then a right on....
    Ha! Was just about to say send an email to Southbay Ampworks for some advice. They beat me to it!!:BITCH:dude
     
  4. voojo

    voojo Gold Supporting Member

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    Rock n F*&kin' Roll! :dude
     
  5. Jay Strange

    Jay Strange Member

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    Musta sounded killer right before it blew:dude
     
  6. Rumblefish

    Rumblefish Silver Supporting Member

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    Would be great to hear a clip of a Scumback death rattle!Were you recording when that happened? Inquiring minds have to know.
     
  7. goodertone

    goodertone Member

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    Actually, I've heard this said before and I'm here to tell you it is true: My amp did sound unusually killer right before it happened. Actually, I wonder how long I kept playing while it was blown (I didn't notice it 'til I switched to clean).

    Thanks, Jim for the info. I will definately be checking out the 100 watt version!
     
  8. goodertone

    goodertone Member

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    A recording would've definately been cool, but recording gear I have not. Sorry!
     
  9. VanR

    VanR Senior Member

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    So how does Bogner get 80 watts from 2-EL34's?
     
  10. wyatt

    wyatt Member

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    High plate voltages. The EL34 can handle up to 800VDC. Traynor used to use plate voltages in excess of 675VDC. Bogner pushes it at least that far...more, IIRC. I haven't looked at a Bogner in several years, but he was using heatsinks that slid onto the power tubes.
     
  11. Scumback Speakers

    Scumback Speakers Gold Supporting Member

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    You're welcome! I'm just sorry you blew it, and the 100 watt "should" take care of you in the future. Hopefully someone else who reads this thread about your experience will listen to me when I tell them what they need for power handling on their speakers.

    No one likes silence... it's an ugly tone! LOL Let me know if there's anything I can do to help.
     
  12. Groovey Records

    Groovey Records Member

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  13. FFTT

    FFTT Member

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    Yeah unreal how many amps and speakers got the best tone ever right before they went up in smoke!

    Perhaps speakers should carry a cholesterol warning before you fry them :)
     
  14. Scumback Speakers

    Scumback Speakers Gold Supporting Member

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    I can see it now...

    "Warning. If your tone sounds orgasmic, your speaker is about to blow. Please exercise the utmost caution, and see a doctor if this lasts for four hours or more."
     
  15. Hacksaw

    Hacksaw Time Warped Gold Supporting Member

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    Is this the new fine print on the back of a new scumback ? :D

    Rawk!!!!
     
  16. HeeHaw

    HeeHaw Member

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    I beat a 65 watt Scumback in a 1x12 with a cranked 50 watt NMV amp for over a year and it survived.
     
  17. FFTT

    FFTT Member

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    There's a fine line between Tone Heaven and going into the light.
     
  18. Scumback Speakers

    Scumback Speakers Gold Supporting Member

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    Or into the firelight...

    I wasn't there for this one, but a friend was.

    Buddy of mine said he was over at a friend's house, who had an old 100 logo Marshall cab (60's) that had been in storage for a number of years. They decided to fire it up, literally, with my buddy's 100 watt Plexi through the 4x12 cab with the "100" logo. (No they didn't realize 100 watt Marshalls put out more than 100 watts...)

    They got the amp dialed in and we're playing some stuff, trying different guitars, etc. After about 10-15 minutes they saw a spark, then a puff of smoke... before they could get to the cabinet 40 feet away (two 20 foot cords and a wah & OD pedal in between) out came some sparks from one of the bottom speakers, then it flamed on them, caught fire to the speaker cone, then singed the cloth as it flamed.

    They had to get the fire extinguisher for the cab.

    Turned out they'd fried the bottom speaker, the first one in the series (of the much discussed parallel/series wiring thread), and the top one on the other side, also the first in the series on that side.

    Moral of the story:

    Old Greenbacks from the 60's have a particular type of voice coil wire lead that can overheat and catch fire from too much volume being sent to them. When this happens, it can catch fire.

    Celestion changed this lead to a different type after 1967/early 68 G12M's generated a number of fire department calls. They also did away with the paper voice coils for the same reason, and switched to another type of voice coil material that had a higher flame retardant resistance.

    This type of stuff is why you don't see many old G12M's in matched quads, folks.

    But my buddy did say it sounded incredible right up until the sparks, smoke and flame started.
     
  19. FFTT

    FFTT Member

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    If only that would have happened in front of a few thousand fans
    You would have been famous! :)
     
  20. Scumback Speakers

    Scumback Speakers Gold Supporting Member

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    I dunno about that. Awe inspiring, orgasmic, incendiary tone is nice...until it smokes, sparks and flames on you. :)

    I do my best to warn folks about overpowering speakers. Sure there's a small cushion, maybe 10-20% MAX (so a 25 watt is good for 30 watt, and a 30 is good for 35-37), but you can't run on the ragged edge unless you have a bunch of speakers to replace the ones you blow, or a rather large budget for replacement speakers and cabs, in case the old Greenbacks catch on fire! Even then, it gets to be more of a pain to deal with.

    Most folks want to play, not change their speakers cuz they fried them. That's gotta get old. I've only fried two speakers personally, on purpose, I might add, a long time ago. I've had a bunch sold to me that were fried, which is always a hassle for both seller and buyer.

    When I tested the new 100 watt version I had a 65 watt in the cab next to it. I hooked them up with alligator clips for quick changes. My 50 watt Metro Plexi, with NOS glass, solid state rectifier and Mercury Radiospares trannies were in the test amp.

    On a volume of 9-10, the 100 watt just screamed with no issues. The 65 watt sounded good to about 7 on the dial, then started sounding a bit strained past 7. So the ratings that Marshall put on them were conservative, and the Shiva with 80 watts and high plate voltages proved the theory I have on speaker power handling.

    My rule of thumb is always to get at least 150% more speaker power handling than your amp's stated wattage, and 200% for most Marshall types and clones. They are just way under-rated.
     

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