Need Bogner help

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs' started by bailnout, Jan 11, 2006.


  1. bailnout

    bailnout Member

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    I just got an Ecstasy 101B head and have quite a few questions for you guys on here who have been playing them and like them. First off, does anyone know what this is?
    [​IMG]

    Is this an input and output for a Hot Plate or something? I thought that anttenuators were inserted between the speaker output and the speaker cabnet.

    Any help is appreciated. If you all have the patience, I have a few more questions abou this beast.


    Thanks...
     
  2. Jerrod

    Jerrod Silver Supporting Member

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    Call Sean at Bogner.
     
  3. bailnout

    bailnout Member

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    Yea, OK. I just talked to Sean. Great dude! Very patient with me.

    Obviously it's there to work with a soak of some kind like a Hot Plate. It's only available for one of the speaker outs. Not sure which but that's easy to figure out. It also has to be assigned to the different channels but pressing OUT the button in the top right hand corner of the block for that channel (just to the left of the attenuator input and output).

    The funny thing is, the "Input" and "Output" labels are kind of reversed. They don't label what they do, they label what you connect the other end of the cable to. So you would connect a cable from the amp where it's labeled attenuator "input" to the Hot Plate's input. Then you would come out of the Hot Plate's output and connect it to the jack on the amp labeled attenuator "output". Kinda messed up. Usually an output of one device is connected to an input of another device. Anyway, it's a cool feature on this 101B that you can't get anymore. The ability to have two different cabinets at all isn't even available now.

    The chassis on this thing is white which is different than most of them I've seen. The guy I bought this thing off of said it's the 22nd one made so maybe they were still using chassis from the 100 models. I can't tell for sure though because the serial number isn't a number at all. It's more like Egyptian hieroglyphics.

    That leads me to my next question... does anyone know what serial number "-^^" means?
     
  4. the_Chris

    the_Chris It's All Been Done Before Gold Supporting Member

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    That means you've got one of the early white chassis 101Bs. They didn't make too many of them with that type of serial number and some players I know really seem to favor them over the later ones.
     
  5. Jerrod

    Jerrod Silver Supporting Member

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    I bought my first nice guitar (1994 PRS Custom 22 Scarlet Red w/ birds) from Sean back in 1994 when he worked at American Music in Seattle. :cool:
     
  6. bailnout

    bailnout Member

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    Well I hope I find in this amp what those guys like about them. I only played the amp for a good day and couldn't find one inspiring tone in it. My suspicioin is that the tubes weren't biased correctly. So it's over at Jeff Bakos' shop. His turnaround time is about 3 weeks so I won't get a chance to play the amp again until then. It just felt like it wasn't running efficiently.

    I really want to like this amp. I have two friends that swear by them and they have great ears for tone. When I get it back and start really giving it a run, I'll probably be posting more questions here. I think this forum is a great place to dig into some great knowledge.
     
  7. jblues

    jblues Guest

    you should get the winged c el34's in it EL34-WC they will sound like heaven even better bass than most 6L6's people sub into marshallls and
    soldano's for power tubes. rock on.
     
  8. bailnout

    bailnout Member

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    Wow dude! Thanks!!!

    I'm not sure what's in it now but I think I will let Jeff Bakos do his thing on it first before I make a suggestion for a tube change. Right now I think just making sure the bias is correct is a good first step. But if that doesn't get it and Jeff hasn't already put EL-34 WCs in it, I will mention it to him. The "more bass" than 6L6s in a Soldano sounds very appealing to me. :)

    Just so anyone reading this and trying to help me knows what kind of tone I like...
    John Sykes
    EVH
    Paul Gilbert's rhythm tone
    the Young Bros.
    George Lynch

    My rhythm style is real chunky, beefy, ballsy drop D most of the time but I like to roll back into a more open crunchy tone that responds to right hand dynamics. For solos, I like to get a lot of gain and sustain going. Nice and thick with some reverb and delay and I like to do a lot of fast picking stuff. I like my cleans crystal with good body with a neck single coil pickup and some chorus splashed in there.

    Thanks in advance to anyone that can help me tweak this Ecstasy to get me to these tone goals.
     
  9. bailnout

    bailnout Member

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    Just got my Bogner back from Bakos Amp Works yesterday and took it to the rehearsal space to open it up. Jeff Bakos said it already had the winged C power tubes in it which is what he would have recommended too if it didn't already have them. He said it scoped out just fine. All the biasing looked correct for that head. I was bummed because I was definitely unimpressed with the tone of that amp before I took it to him. He mentioned he could swap some 12ax7s around in it to try and get the gain I was looking for. I told him I already had some good 12ax7s to throw into V1 and would try that. He then mentioned that he could swap the phase inverter tube out and that might get me a sound I liked better. I asked him what was in it now and he said some Chinese tube from the early 90s that (at least back then) everyone was going for. I remembered those tubes and never liked them. So I told him to go ahead and put something else in there that he thought would be better. He said that almost without fail, when he puts an Ei in as the phase inverter tube, his customers always like it. So I told him to give it a shot. By the time I got to the shop to pick it up, he had already done that tube swap and and tested it. He said there was a VERY NOTICEABLE difference in the gain. He started making references to Soldanos and VHTs when talking about the tone. OK, now I was stoked.

    So I get the amp to the rehearsal space and cranked it up. My God what a difference that tube made. It was like a completely different amp. I loved on that thing for hours. Then I started messing around with the tube in V1. Again, the tube that was in it was some Chinese no-namer. I tried another Ei, an Electro Harmonics, a Sovtek and a Tung-Sol and settled on the Tung-Sol for now. Although I might throw that Sovtek back in it and play on that for a little longer to see how I like it.

    Now there are a LOT of different ways to run this amp. I'm a nube with it so if there are any Ecstasy owners out there that would like to share how they set their amps up and for what sounds/situations they are using those setting for, that would be greatly appreciated. Remember, this head has pretty much every option ever offered on an Ecstasy so chances are I've got whatever switch or jack on there that I need to try out a suggested setting.

    Thanks to all in advance!
     
  10. bailnout

    bailnout Member

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  11. Ricker

    Ricker Member

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    It's amazing how one tube can make you go from 'not one inspiring sound' to complete XTC...........maybe you had a paradigm shift.

    Rick
     
  12. bailnout

    bailnout Member

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    I doubt it. I'm pretty set in my ways! Plus, I'm a pretty one dimensional player!!:D

    I really think that tube turned the amp around. Even my tech was amazed.

    One thing that was probably a big difference maker between the first time I played through it and the next was the size of the room and the volume I was playing at. The first time I was at home. I thought I was playing loud. The second time I was in a much bigger room, farther away from the amp and probably quite a bit higher on the volume knob.

    Which brings me to a point I keep hearing about these amps that I would like to weigh in on. It's the "blanket over the speakers" comment. At the house, that's what I heard. When I got into a bigger room, away from the amp a good bit more and turned it up, that "blanket over the speaker" thing pretty much went away.

    Do you think that assessment of the Ecstasy comes from people that use them at home? Or do people that use them on stage live have the same opinion? I'd really like to hear from some guys that use these live because I may not get a chance to take it to a live gig situation before I have to make the decision to keep it or keep my OD-100. I may be playing it way louder now than I'll be able to in clubs.

    Does anyone on here run their Ecstasy with a Hot Plate? If so, what's the tone like? Is it still a "blanket over the speakers" kind of sound?
     
  13. duffyguitarman

    duffyguitarman Member

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    I love my XTC and get many great sounds from ultra clean funk/jazz, SRVish, Hendrixy, Holdsorthy. It takes time to get to know how all the switches interact ect. Not sure what you are going for, but I have a bunch of XTC clips in different styles on my website. Email me if you have something specific you are going after, of course guitars and pickups will change things. But I will gladly give you some settings and suggestions if I know what I am trying to address.

    Peace,
    duffy
     
  14. Play by Tone

    Play by Tone Member

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    Depends on the day.
    FWIW they still recommend the Chinese 12ax7s at Bogner, thats what they design their amps around. But, I've tried other tubes and liked them too, so who cares :p
     
  15. bailnout

    bailnout Member

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    Yea, Duffy. I think I listened to ALL of your clips before I bought one of these. Your clips helped me confirm that I needed to get one of these for myself. But as you know, sound clips and actually playing through an amp are completely different. Your style is quite a bit different than mine and you are definitely a better player than I am. I'll go back and listen to them again and PM you with some specific questions about them if I have any.

    Here's is what I would like to go after tone wise with this amp though:
    Clean = A warm, chorusy, Gilmoreish, neck single coil sound for ringing arpeggiated chords but able to go to a snappy, funk type clean tone too.
    Rhythm = Crunchy, Marshally, AC/DCish brown sound that responds well to volume control and pick dynamics to go from semi-clean to loud bashing chords
    Lead = Singing sustained creamy notes and a gain structure that allows for either smooth legato or fast alternate picking while keeping it's definition. I'm thinking John Sykes meets John Petrucci in an octagon ring with George Lynch as referee and Eddie Van Halen giving the blow-by-blow comentary...if that makes any sense!
     
  16. bailnout

    bailnout Member

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    It might not have been so much that it was Chinese as much at it might have just been a bad tube.
     
  17. duffyguitarman

    duffyguitarman Member

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    I can pretty much gleen what your looking from your excellent descriptions. Overall, those are the same things I try to get. I will set aside some time and email you my very settings and some suggestions. I think it will get you in the ball park, then you can tweek to your touch, style and guitars.


    Peace,
    duffy
     
  18. robbieboyette

    robbieboyette Member

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    It took me a couple of days to get used to my Bogner and figure out how it works. But now that I have it tweaked in I love it.
    I play mine out gigging in small night clubs and it is loud but I'm able to keep it just on the verge of being too loud.
    Here's what I've found....
    I tried a Hot Plate with it. Made it sound REAL thin. Sold the Hot Plate. I'm much happier.
    What I do is set the blue and red gains all the way up. Set the master volumes for each around 9:30 o'clock. Bass all the way up, mids about halfway and treble about halfway. The mids really make a difference in the upper mid almost treble frequencies so set the mids and treble to taste according to cab type and guitar.
    Make SURE you have the Excusion switch set to get the most bass you can out of it. That switch is VERY important.
    Okay now that I have the blue and red channels set...I use the blue for my crunch rhythm and the red for my leads. And yes...that blue channel sounds great for leads too, but in a club setting I need 3 channels and I need my lead to be a little louder than my rhythm.
    For classic rock songs...like Honky Tonk Women or Alright Now or anything that has that straight Marshall sound. I use the blue and red channels WITHOUT the boost on.
    Then when I want to get heavy ala John Sykes and George Lynch I just kick the boost on and BAM...there it is.
    The clean channel can disappoint you at first. Don't give up on it. It took me damn near a month to finally get it to do what I wanted it to do. Just took some tweaking with the gain and master volume of the clean channel. I finally settled on a low gain setting and a higher master volume. Again...if I'm playing clean rhythm (usually on a ballad) I leave the boost OFF. And when I kick up a clean lead (like Wonderful Tonite) I pop the boost on and it gives me a little extra volume and OOOMPH.
    Hope this helps.
     
  19. robbieboyette

    robbieboyette Member

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    P.S.: When you get it right...you should be able to nail that Randy Rhoads solo sound from Crazy Train perfectly! :)
     
  20. duffyguitarman

    duffyguitarman Member

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    Duh, I don't know what I was thinking. I am going to post my settings here insted of e-mailing them to you, in case someone else might want to try them.

    Cleans: ch.1 Bright swch. b-1/ Gain boost off/ M.vol-all the way up/ Treb.-2:30/ Mid 10:30/ Bass-all the way up. Gain 11o'clock. This is very clean, for pristine chordal/funky rhythm stuff. Push the boost swch. and if you pick hard, you get a little top end breakup. Pick soft, single solo lines are just fuller and boosted in vol.

    Crunch,Bluesy: ch.2 Bright swch. b-2/ Gain boost off Treb.-2:30/ Mid-all the way up/ Bass-2 o'clock/ Gain-all the way up.
    This gets you into driven country sounds, crunchy rhythm, SRVish type gain soloing depending on how you set the Structure and Boost swch.on/off.
    I would like to have the Structure footswitchable and am having it looked into right now. Untill then it's manual.

    Higher gain stuff. ch.3/ Gain all the way up/ Bright swch. usually off/.

    The Presance A&B now come into play. Pres. A is for ch.1&2, with the Excursion Loose setting for full bottom end. It is usually around 2:30. I asign ch.3 to Pres. B, with the Excursion Tight setting for low end. Usually around 2:30.

    By messing with the Bright swch. and Pres. on ch.3, you can dial in a lot of different nuances of singing type solo gain w/the boost on., high struct.
    With boost off it is all out rockn' chord stuff, Hendrixy solo type gain.

    I use lower output pick ups, set quite low, so the gain will have to be experimented with.

    The amps master on the back can dial it down a bit for smaller venues, but at half it will start to sound buzzy. The amp is great loud. I sometimes use a plexiglass panel in front of the cab. I use higher wattage speakers and am not a fan of Vin 30's, type sound, it also seems to sound best at 8 ohms. I have used the half power setting with fair results for lower vol. type things. I don't like or use the "old" setting. I always use effects in Parallel mode.

    Well, I hope this helps. The amp does have a lot of switches ect. on it that makes it nessecary to work with and learn it. A lot of folks got turned off by that, and the amp is often dismissed or misunderstood.

    Peace,
    duffy
     

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