Need help with live sound. Need separate eq from monitors and mains.

Discussion in 'Recording/Live Sound' started by jjboogie, Apr 24, 2016.

  1. jjboogie

    jjboogie Supporting Member

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    I am typically "the musician out on tour" but I occasionally I run FOH and monitors for my wife's corporate band when they are in a pickle. They are using the Behringer X32 rack and I just mix off my ipad. I don't know diddly squat about the inside and out of this thing but I can eq, compress and level very well and get a great balanced mix. My question has more to do with separating the monitor eq and the FOH eq. I don't know how to do that. I want to be able to eq the FOH without affecting the monitor mix but I also need to be able to eq the monitors obviously so that the singers and players have a good clear mix.


    Any insight would be most welcome. Thanks!
     
  2. 335guy

    335guy Member

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    Sorry man, I can't offer any assistance. But I do know you can EQ the monitors and mains separately within that mixer. You're going to have to delve into the user manual. And sign up for that latest firmware updates.
     
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  3. jjboogie

    jjboogie Supporting Member

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    Right on....Yeah I have been reading through the manual but haven't found what I am looking for yet.
     
  4. 335guy

    335guy Member

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  5. walterw

    walterw Gold Supporting Member

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    don't know the X32, but on the XR18 you go to "routing" and it has options for setting the auxes different ways; you want them set to "input" or even "analog", so that nothing you do to the mains affects the monitors.
    [edit: i'm wrong here, that just messes up the aux output controls! tweaking the aux sends has to happen in the X-air edit program on a PC.]
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2017
  6. sants

    sants Supporting Member

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    If you want a graphic eq you need to insert one using one of effects buses. If you choose a stereo graphic eq you can cover two separate mixes using only one bus. There is a tab in the corner of each eq where you select which output the eq is applied to.

    It's been a little while since ive used the x32 so I may be missing some things but it's in the ballpark.

    IIRC not having dedicated GEQ is one of the only reasons I didn't go with the x32. If you have a large number of mixes and need other effects, you could run into issues, though not a common issue for most.

    Each bus still has a parametric eq that most engineers argue is better than graphic. Select the desired mix/aux send and enter the eq section. Should be straight forward. You want to click on the Bus 1-8/9-16 tabs in the app. These are where your monitor channels are routed from.

    The x32 series are great boards and should be able to do almost anything needed.

    If you are having feedback issues have you used the spectrum analyzer? It will show you the offending frequencies and makes it super easy to remove them.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2016
  7. Rex Anderson

    Rex Anderson Member

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    As others have said, you need to put an EQ on the main stereo bus and an EQ on the aux sends you are using for monitor sends. If you are using multiple sends for different monitor mixes, put an EQ on each aux send.

    Depending on how the system is tuned using EQ, there may be a parametric EQ on the main stereo buss to tune it to the room. Adding a 31 band graphic will allow you to ring out the mains to eliminate feedback.

    You mostly want 31 band graphic EQ's on aux sends for monitors to ring them out to eliminate feedback. You can also cut low frequencies to keep bass out of the monitors.

    The manual shows the graphic EQ's as part of the FX.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2016
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  8. jjboogie

    jjboogie Supporting Member

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    All I've been using so far is the parametric eq on each individual channel on the config/preamp page. That's where I use all the dynamics. Of course from there it affects both the house and monitors.
     
  9. walterw

    walterw Gold Supporting Member

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    and that's what you can't have, especially the dynamics. compression in monitors is a big no-no, it leads to feedback and blown-out voices from people singing too hard.

    looking at the X32 app on my ipad, i think the trick is to go to the routing button up top, then for each aux out select the "tap" as "IN/Low cut". if this does what i think it does, your channel's input gain and low cut will affect the monitors (which is fine, trim and HPF usually get set and left alone) but nothing else will.

    also, i'm in the "screw the graphics" camp; parametrics are already better, and on a touchscreen they're also easier.

    you should be using the master output EQ to get the system sounding right (maybe "flat" is too much to hope for, but at least "balanced" or "neutral"), using the channel EQ to get each input to sound right in the mains (compensating for the differences between instruments, boosting lows and scooping low mids on the kick, cutting lows on vocals, etc), then using the monitor EQ to get the monitors sounding good, loud and not feedback-y.

    i think with one board you have to go with essentially un-EQ'd signals in the monitors, but that can be fine as long as you can EQ the monitor itself to sound pleasing.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2016
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  10. jjboogie

    jjboogie Supporting Member

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    Ok so basically I can't eq let's say a vocal in the monitor one way and that same vocal in the house another with one board?
     
  11. walterw

    walterw Gold Supporting Member

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    i don't think so, that's where you'd need two separate boards. either that or you'd "split channel", using two channels on the board for one vocal, sending one just to the mains and the other just to the monitors. i dunno if that's a trick the X32 does or if you'd have to do it old-school with an XLR Y-cable.

    shouldn't be necessary though, you can just EQ the monitor itself to sound good overall and knock out any feedback.
     
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  12. jjboogie

    jjboogie Supporting Member

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    Well the monitors themselves are pretty crappy and they need lots more love and attention from the parametric eq but I can try next time and see what i can do. I have found other folks setting up 1-16 as FOH and mirroring those inputs over on 17-32 which are the same 16 inputs mapped to another "layer" for monitors only.
     
  13. walterw

    walterw Gold Supporting Member

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    oh, so you can put one input onto two totally independent channels with no interaction between the two? that's pretty cool. (i don't see where you'd really need to do all that except for the vocal channels though, instruments are usually a bit less fussy.)

    real-world in clubs and such i've never seen the need, if you can EQ the monitors themselves to sound reasonably good then the channels going into them can be fine if they're not EQ'd individually.

    monitor wedges are typically all about the vocal, with other stuff added in a little; EQ the wedge to where the vocal sounds good and the other stuff will tend to still be OK.
     
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  14. Rex Anderson

    Rex Anderson Member

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    There are a lot of ways to skin the cat as to how you send your mix to FOH and mains. Taking the time to EQ individual channels differently to mains and monitors sounds like too much work to me.

    You set up your mains so they are basically flat. Then you EQ your channels so they sound good in the mains. You EQ your mains to eliminate feedback.

    The sends to your monitors are pre-fade and pre EQ. You set up a mix to each monitor so the instrumental balance is what is needed. You EQ each monitor so the mix sounds good and you eliminate feedback.

    Done.
     
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  15. jjboogie

    jjboogie Supporting Member

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    Actually they have four vocalists. They are the main concern. The instruments are fine. So I could really with this particular band just mirror the four vocalist channels and try that.
     
  16. walterw

    walterw Gold Supporting Member

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    as long as you really can set all the dynamics and EQ differently on the mirrored channels.

    me i'd just do like @Rex Anderson suggested, set monitors to be pre-everything, then EQ each wedge to sound good.

    if you've been fighting your nice out-front channel compression showing up in the monitor mixes, then fixing that alone will be a night and day improvement in how easy you find getting good loud wedges and happy singers.
     
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  17. jjboogie

    jjboogie Supporting Member

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    The compression hasn't been an issue. It's been subtle just to tame a few peaks. The only thing I've compressed heavily has been the bass. Anyways I agree that that could certainly turn into an issue if one got carried away.
     
  18. walterw

    walterw Gold Supporting Member

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    regardless, keep it out of the monitors!
     
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  19. jjboogie

    jjboogie Supporting Member

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    Agreed! Thanks for your input man!
     
  20. The1hub

    The1hub Member

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    I was about to suggest this exact same thing. I do this on my Midas pro 9 all the time. on 17-32 you set the axes up to post fader so the auxs will be all after the signal processing. gates can be really helpful on toms by the way. if you need more input channels you only need to duplicate inputs on key channels like kick, snare, vocals, guitars that you need for monitors. also if the x32 has a copy channels feature get familiar with it so you only have to setup one or two channels and then paste the rest it will save you a ton of time.
     
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