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Need help with Orange clean channel

Soundstorm

Member
Messages
108
Not really digging the clean tones on the RV100. Really bassy and round, kinda just "flat" sounding. Sounds better than when I first got it, though. At first it broke up really easy, around 12 o'clock in volume I was getting into almost mid-gain territory. Exchanged the stock no-brand "Ecc83" in V1 for a silver series Groove Tube 12ax7 and had much more clean headroom. Now I switched the 12ax7 to V2, and put Groove Tubes Ecc83 in V1 and V3. The rest are the generic ecc83's and 12at7's. Power tubes are the stock EH 6ca7's.

The OD is beautiful, but I know I can be pulling better tones from this amp.

I'm thinking it may be the ecc83's. I was also thinking about trying some SED 6L6's and having it biased (remember, this amp will work with EL34, 6CA7, 6L6, KT88, or 6550 tubes). It could be running pretty cold for all I know, it's still pretty much the factory setup.

All input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, guys.
 

jamison162

Member
Messages
7,750
6L6's or EL34's?

If EL34's yeah, not your best clean tone tube. I much prefer 6V6's, 6L6's and EL84's; no experience with the KT's.

Tubes do affect these amps bigtime, mainly the 12ax7's. And for the clean channel, you only have one for both gain stages. There are two other totally independant 12ax7's for the 4 dirty gain stages.

Other than tubes/biasing...what speakers/cab are you running? V30's?

If so, that's probably 75% of the problem right there. I have an RV50 and aside from the 6V6's being superior cleans in my opinion, I'm using a TS for the clean ax7 and G12-65's. You want good cleans, try a G12-65, Reissue Greenback or Scumback H75 (depending on your config and budget.)
 

Soundstorm

Member
Messages
108
6L6's or EL34's?

If EL34's yeah, not your best clean tone tube. I much prefer 6V6's, 6L6's and EL84's; no experience with the KT's.

Tubes do affect these amps bigtime, mainly the 12ax7's. And for the clean channel, you only have one for both gain stages. There are two other totally independant 12ax7's for the 4 dirty gain stages.

Other than tubes/biasing...what speakers/cab are you running? V30's?

If so, that's probably 75% of the problem right there. I have an RV50 and aside from the 6V6's being superior cleans in my opinion, I'm using a TS for the clean ax7 and G12-65's. You want good cleans, try a G12-65, Reissue Greenback or Scumback H75 (depending on your config and budget.)
I'm using a Bogner 4x12 w/ V30's.

So you're suggesting a Tung-Sol RI for the clean 12ax7? What about the two OD and PI slot? I'm thinking I'll keep the original 12at7's for FX loop and Reverb.
 

jamison162

Member
Messages
7,750
Well I have a mix of TS, JJ and EH's in there. I have some NOS also that I haven't tried yet. The at7's for the Reverb and PI...I believe I went with NOS Mullard CV2024's (12at7's) or whatever they're called for $20 a pop. Stock power tubes are EH6V6's but I do have a matched quad of the TS's that I will be putting in soon.

Also, in my opinion, if you want a great clean tone, you gotta go with an open back cab - or at least ported. I'm not a closed back guy.

But...if I were you, knowing what I know now...first thing I would do is load that 4x12 up with some reissue greenbacks, scumback m75's, private jacks, GB12's, weber 1225's or mojotone bv-12m's. See where that gets you. Should be a huge improvement clean and dirty wise.
 

Soundstorm

Member
Messages
108
Well I have a mix of TS, JJ and EH's in there. I have some NOS also that I haven't tried yet. The at7's for the Reverb and PI...I believe I went with NOS Mullard CV2024's (12at7's) or whatever they're called for $20 a pop. Stock power tubes are EH6V6's but I do have a matched quad of the TS's that I will be putting in soon.

Also, in my opinion, if you want a great clean tone, you gotta go with an open back cab - or at least ported. I'm not a closed back guy.

But...if I were you, knowing what I know now...first thing I would do is load that 4x12 up with some reissue greenbacks, scumback m75's, private jacks, GB12's, weber 1225's or mojotone bv-12m's. See where that gets you. Should be a huge improvement clean and dirty wise.
I'm not ready to invest any money in speakers. I know it could make a difference...but I'm really thinking tubes and bias at this point. Just some current production tubes. Something currently produced has got to work well in this amp! :worried
 

jamison162

Member
Messages
7,750
Really bassy and round, kinda just "flat" sounding.
Well, with those V30's - this is pretty much what you're stuck with no matter how much you spend on tubes. I can tell you after trying more than a dozen speakers, then playing the G12-65 for 2-3 weeks - then going back to try the V30...the V30 is lacking in low end, is flat, dull and lifeless through the mids and has no real sparkle or chime on top. It's congested and tight sounding (even after break-in). The only thing they are good for in my opinion is higher gain power chord rock.
 

Soundstorm

Member
Messages
108
Well, with those V30's - this is pretty much what you're stuck with no matter how much you spend on tubes. I can tell you after trying more than a dozen speakers, then playing the G12-65 for 2-3 weeks - then going back to try the V30...the V30 is lacking in low end, is flat, dull and lifeless through the mids and has no real sparkle or chime on top. It's congested and tight sounding (even after break-in). The only thing they are good for in my opinion is higher gain power chord rock.
Well....higher gain power chord rock happens to be my forte ;) But, I do enjoy a great clean tone like anyone else, and I have gotten some GREAT clean tones through V30s in my previous amps, so V30's do not = bad clean tone, IMO. The clean channel is actually bassier than I need it, not lacking. I turn the bass down, then crank the treble, and with an absence of a mid knob, it's thrown all out of whack. The rest of the controls on the amp are almost all at noon and sound great there. I would like the clean channel to do the same.
 

jamison162

Member
Messages
7,750
On the clean channel, the treble and bass are interactive and affects the mids so play around with that.

All I'm saying is that the cleans through a V30 pale in comparison to the cleans I'm getting through these G12-65's. And I like the od tones much better as well, if you're wondering.
 

Soundstorm

Member
Messages
108
On the clean channel, the treble and bass are interactive and affects the mids so play around with that.

All I'm saying is that the cleans through a V30 pale in comparison to the cleans I'm getting through these G12-65's. And I like the od tones much better as well, if you're wondering.
I really appreciate all the suggestions. I just don't have the cash for new speakers etc at this point. I've put a lot of money into the setup I have, and i know I can get better tones out of it without having to spend that kind of money/time. Seriously, though...thanks again :)

-Trey
 

Soundstorm

Member
Messages
108
I think I may have an idea. The clean channel has it's own V slot....so maybe a JAN-Phillips 5751? Hmm, I think I'll try that.
 

jamison162

Member
Messages
7,750
I think I may have an idea. The clean channel has it's own V slot....so maybe a JAN-Phillips 5751? Hmm, I think I'll try that.
That's what I was saying, the clean channels 2 gain stages are independant from the dirty channel. Try some RCA blackplates in there.
 
Messages
1,009
When I had the RV50, I didn't think it had enough bass, although it was a fairly dark tone. You might try a clean boost with some eq'ing ability in the fx loop to get some more mids and brighten it up a bit. It worked for me.
 

jamison162

Member
Messages
7,750
When I had the RV50, I didn't think it had enough bass, although it was a fairly dark tone. You might try a clean boost with some eq'ing ability in the fx loop to get some more mids and brighten it up a bit. It worked for me.
I agree with that; circuit, output transformers, not sure. Could be the EH6V6's even. I usually turn the bass up on both channels, that's what it's there for. The G12-65 and a good quality speaker cable from head to cab have really improved the low end in my rig.
 




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