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Need Help With Potential Paypal Dispute

Messages
2,068
Well, chalk one up for not listening to one's instincts .. Here is the situation.

I sold a nice Custom J-200 Elite Acoustic on ebay to a buyer in China. I posted I would not ship overseas, and he contacted me that he had a friend with a in CA that he has receive all his US purchases and ships them to him from there. His feedback was great and the address was protected, so I was ok with going forward.

I explained to him numerous times (and everything is documented in emails) that I would pack well, and ship to CA, and at that point the transaction was done between us. His friend who received the guitar would need to check the guitar and make sure it arrived safe, and contact if there was any damage. Our deal would be done at this time. His friend would need to repack and ship to him and that was between them at that point. I even took pictures of the packing I did (based on experience, and tips from people hear on TGP) and sent to him for him approval or any changes. He received the pictures and said (OK, go ahead and ship).

I sent on Sept 12th and it was received and signed for in person on Sept 17th. I sent him an email on the 18th saying your friend has the guitar, he needs to check it and let me know if anything is wrong immediately, as I am not responsible for transit to China. I did not hear anything back and weeks went on and I assumed all is well.

Today, 19 days after it was received in CA, I get an email from the buyer saying the guitar is in China and it has damage to the lower bout (picture show the top seperated from the bout). He says the packing was great longitude wise, but transverse it was not and this caused the issue.....From the picture, it is obvious that whomever shipped it overseas stacked heavy items on top of it as it is the only way to cause that damage. The guitar was secure in all directions and did not move at all inside the box or case...

He wants to know how I want to handle this damage. I sent him a response stating that the agreement was I was in charge of safe transport to the paypal address on file in the US, and his friend needed to check the package for damages upon receipt and contact me at that time, repack and ship to him with them being responsible at that time. ....I mentioned i emailed him to remind him the day after it was received, and I had no response for 19 days. Now the guitar is in China, damaged, and there is no way FED EX would handle a claim on it, and rightfully so.... I apologized for the damage, but told him I would not be able to assist as this did not happen on my transit, and he did not follow our agreement.

I have not heard back from him, but assume he will try and dispute with paypal and 3k plus is at stake. I have all of our conversations saved in email and thru ebay, but worry that paypal just "rules in favor of the receiver" regardless of the facts or documents....

Anyone have any tips.....This makes me sick...I have 1700 positive feedback, 0 negatives, but expect that will change now and I am gonna be forced to close my paypal account so as not to get him with thousands of dollars in loss...
 

ixnay

Member
Messages
4,387
If you did it correctly, the entire transaction was between you and the individual in CA as far as eBay and PayPal are concerned. Once you got it to them safely, they could care less what happens after that. The worst you would probably get out of this is negative feedback, but that will happen no matter what if you're on eBay long enough...
 

DGTCrazy

Mod Squad
Staff member
Messages
16,168
Seems like you have your documentation to prove the buyer agreed to have this type of transaction. Just have everything ready. I don't understand how the guy who shipped the guitar to China didn't have insurance. And how do you know the guitar with the issue is the same guitar you sold? I smell something hinky here.
 

Rich

Member
Messages
893
Sorry to hear.

Don't make that assumption, though.

I would make a pre-emptive strike with Paypal. I'd call, explain the situation, reference your documentation and the buyer's acceptance of the terms and tell them that you are concerned that the buyer will make a bogus claim against you.

See what they say.

For what its worth, closing your account would not prevent Paypal from clawing back your money. I believe they'd still be able to process a reversal / chargeback - whether against your bank account or whatever credit card you have on file. They could hold it "in suspense" while they investigate.

Tell you the truth, its exactly this type of situation that has prevented me from dealing with any sort of middleman when I sell. Principals only. And US only at that.

Good luck with it.

Just realized - unless the payment came from the buyer in China himself, he cannot make any claims against you. The CA buyer would only be able to do so. And I suspect that even Paypal would take a dim view of a 19-day lag in reporting a problem and filing a claim.
 

NB_Terry

Member
Messages
3,211
Be careful.

I had a similar sale for a $300 pedal. I agreed to sell to someone in France but I said there would be no tracking, it was only insured for $100, and it would take 2 weeks minimum to get there.

2 weeks on the nose the guy complains to paypal, and he gets his money back. I show paypal all the emails where he agreed to my terms, but with no luck.

2 months later the guy sells the same pedal with the same serial number on ebay. I again point this out to ebay to no avail.
 
Messages
2,068
Seems like you have your documentation to prove the buyer agreed to have this type of transaction. Just have everything ready. I don't understand how the guy who shipped the guitar to China didn't have insurance. And how do you know the guitar with the issue is the same guitar you sold? I smell something hinky here.
Great point! The funny thing is I sent detailed pics of packing in the case, as well as the packing outside the case in the shipping box and he said ( looks good)

Also, turns out his "friend" that receives his US items and gets them to him is a large 3rd party Asian shipping forwarding company.

I called PayPal like someone recommended and it looks like I am going to be ok. He put some preliminary notes in the account as well, but freight forwarding is obviously not protected.
 

ixnay

Member
Messages
4,387
Be careful.

I had a similar sale for a $300 pedal. I agreed to sell to someone in France but I said there would be no tracking, it was only insured for $100, and it would take 2 weeks minimum to get there.

2 weeks on the nose the guy complains to paypal, and he gets his money back. I show paypal all the emails where he agreed to my terms, but with no luck.

2 months later the guy sells the same pedal with the same serial number on ebay. I again point this out to ebay to no avail.
The bottom line is that eBay and PayPal don't care what agreement you reach with buyer/seller. All the will look at is whether you followed their rules or not. If you didn't follow ALL of their policies to the letter, you are screwed.
 

Rich

Member
Messages
893
Great point! The funny thing is I sent detailed pics of packing in the case, as well as the packing outside the case in the shipping box and he said ( looks good)

Also, turns out his "friend" that receives his US items and gets them to him is a large 3rd party Asian shipping forwarding company.

I called PayPal like someone recommended and it looks like I am going to be ok. He put some preliminary notes in the account as well, but freight forwarding is obviously not protected.
good stuff
 
Messages
2,068
Be careful.

I had a similar sale for a $300 pedal. I agreed to sell to someone in France but I said there would be no tracking, it was only insured for $100, and it would take 2 weeks minimum to get there.

2 weeks on the nose the guy complains to paypal, and he gets his money back. I show paypal all the emails where he agreed to my terms, but with no luck.

2 months later the guy sells the same pedal with the same serial number on ebay. I again point this out to ebay to no avail.
One thing I have learned from using PayPal for over 12 years.....if you do not supply delivery confirmation, the buyer can win a dispute every time.
 

Black Squirrel

Gold Supporting Member
Messages
3,188
You could get the short end if the CA address was not the buyer (Or Payer) confirmed paypal address.
 

Johnny Alien

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
2,589
Everyone involved agrees it was damaged in shipping. And it's pretty much confirmed that it was damaged from CA to China. So let him know his only recourse is to file a dispute with the shipping company. The shipper in CA will need to initiate it.
 

DustyRhodesJr

Member
Messages
11,959
I think you are gonna win that one. I would call paypal again if you receive
notice of the buyer filing a dispute.
 






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