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Neural DSP Quad Cortex

guitarobert

Member
Messages
323
I thought the cleans sounded fantastic in the video. The gain tones didn't sound great, and I would have liked to hear more rhythm playing through the high gain clips. I think it would have been better if they had the players become familiar with the unit first to dial in a preset they love, instead of walking in and playing it for the first time. It's likely this could have sounded a lot better for each player had they used it for a few days beforehand and dialed in their own presets during that time.

And I'll say it.. There was too much reverb.
 

Szabo Wabo

Member
Messages
189
I agree, the cleans and low gain tones were awesome in the video. I wasn’t wild about the high gain tones...HOWEVER...the high-gain tones Rabea got in his demo of the prototype were stellar. The plugins sound great, too, so I have full confidence that the the QC will not disappoint in that department.
 
Messages
374
“...instead of walking in and playing it for the first time. It's likely this could have sounded a lot better for each player had they used it for a few days beforehand and dialed in their own presets during that time.”
They deliberately showcased usability by including the candid dialogue & device interactions. This tells me they wanted the viewer envisioning themself being inspired and spending more time playing a piece of great sounding, pro level gear rather than tweaking it - because of how simple and easy it is to use. That appears to have been their point, and even though you’re absolutely right - had they done as you suggested, that point may have been missed.
 

kavinsky

Member
Messages
20
I find it amusing that some people in this thread seem to be doubting the QC's ability to do good high gain tones based on a virtually untweaked(right?) EVH amp in this latest demo.

I remember when the Fortin Cali plugin was released earlier this year. I read so many comments basically saying "ugh, high gain again? Neural's already proven they can do great high gain, let's see if they can do good edge-of-breakup"
If you had any real experience with 5150 or 5150 III you’d know that they sound perfect at noon settings
And all great tube amps do
Nobody “tweaks” the amp for it to sound good. There’s no such thing
The toneblock post eq controls are there to make the tone work in context, not to address the issues.

That evh tone sounded strange and underwhelming. Flubby and wooly. No, the real one doesn’t sound like that. I have a real one so when the QC ships we can shoot them out using the same DI/IR

Theres something about neural stuff that always sounds harsh and cold to me. I’m interested if their machine learning neural capture could be as good as the kemper, because these “traditional” modeled amps (both plugins and what we heard from qc) seem to be a miss to my taste.
 

TheTrueZoltan!

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
269
(...) If you had any real experience with 5150 or 5150 III you’d know that they sound perfect at noon settings
And all great tube amps do
Nobody “tweaks” the amp for it to sound good. There’s no such thing
The toneblock post eq controls are there to make the tone work in context, not to address the issues. (...)
Errr... no. Have you ever tried to achieve a good high gain sound with a Mesa Recto or a Mark series amp with all settings at noon? Also, I find 5150 style amps to be quite muddy and dark without tweaking, especially with higher Master Volume settings. The III is voiced a little brighter and tighter, though.

I seem to be the minority here, but I think the 5150 III model sounded perfectly fine in that video. And the Master control seems to be volume compensated, if my hearing didn‘t fool me. The power amp saturation increased noticably when Francisco turned it up while Kiko was playing, but the overall volume didn‘t. I really liked that!
 
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kavinsky

Member
Messages
20
Errr... no. Have you ever tried to achieve a good high gain sound with a Mesa Recto or a Mark series amp with all settings at noon? Also, I find 5150 style amps to be quite muddy and dark without tweaking, especially with higher Master Volume settings. The III is voiced a little brighter and tighter, though.
boogie mark amps have a different architecture - the tone block is before the preamp, essentially acting as a pre eq or a tubescreamer.
rectifier is a very odd sounding amp aswell, never liked its bloated sound anyway

here's a little test
a real block letter 5150 with all the settings at noon through a loadbox, followed by the axe fx model
both through the same IR and direct amps with cab IR bypassed

it doesnt sound woofy and unfocused or harsh.
the axe fx version is noticeably worse
but that 5153 in the video cant come close to the 5153 blue in the axe fx, which is the tightest amp on the axe fx

the only way I can get this sound in a digital world is by doing direct kemper profiles
so I still have hopes for neural capture. but obviously its too early to judge it yet
if its at least as good, that would be a win, considering all the routing possibilies etc
 
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gtr37

Member
Messages
5,381
boogie mark amps have a different architecture - the tone block is before the preamp, essentially acting as a pre eq or a tubescreamer.
rectifier is a very odd sounding amp aswell, never liked its bloated sound anyway

here's a little test
a real block letter 5150 with all the settings at noon through a loadbox, followed by the axe fx model
both through the same IR and direct amps with cab IR bypassed

it doesnt sound woofy and unfocused or harsh.
the axe fx version is noticeably worse
but that 5153 in the video cant come close to the 5153 blue in the axe fx, which is the tightest amp on the axe fx

the only way I can get this sound in a digital world is by doing direct kemper profiles
so I still have hopes for neural capture. but obviously its too early to judge it yet
if its at least as good, that would be a win, considering all the routing possibilies etc

Now if you have time do me a favor
Record that Axe Fx 5153 blue
Going into a DI box then into the
USB interface , use the ML sound lab mesa oversize w V30
Put the SM57 dead center against the Grill
Use no lo or hi cuts
Put all controls on 5 except master put it on like 9 or 10
Use a guitar with hi output ceramic pickups
Now record that and compare to your original clip
 

kavinsky

Member
Messages
20
Now if you have time do me a favor
Record that Axe Fx 5153 blue
Going into a DI box then into the
USB interface , use the ML sound lab mesa oversize w V30
Put the SM57 dead center against the Grill
Use no lo or hi cuts
Put all controls on 5 except master put it on like 9 or 10
Use a guitar with hi output ceramic pickups
Now record that and compare to your original clip
you're welcome

you can put your own IRs. we're talking amp modeling here anyway.
just the amp block, all noon and its still super tight.
even with all the excessive dissonant low end going into the front
 
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mikah912

Member
Messages
6,799
Ultimately, Neural tends to pay attention to popular consensus about their stuff, and I have to think they realize that the recent high gain rhythm modeling demos (Both the first Sweetwater tone and this last video) thus far are underwhelming. Here, Sevenstring.org, social media.....very disappointed impressions with that one aspect.

The Rabea NAMM video is great proof to the contrary, but we need to hear those tones with the latest firmware along with a deep dive into that awesome cab interface being used in real time to its fullest potential. That's it.

Don't know how much longer they're keeping their powder dry, but I'd get some "damage control" clips out post haste. Nikko of @ML Sound Lab most certainly should be invested in making sure his IRs are better perceived, and he demos this stuff well all the time. Nolly doing a demo with his newly added IRs would be a guaranteed banger. Hell, have some of the bigger Neural endorsees lend you a rhythm DI and just reamp it through a ton of different high gain QC amp models in real time.

Personally, I'm still fully onboard, but the need is there.
 

gtr37

Member
Messages
5,381
Ultimately, Neural tends to pay attention to popular consensus about their stuff, and I have to think they realize that the recent high gain rhythm modeling demos (Both the first Sweetwater tone and this last video) thus far are underwhelming. Here, Sevenstring.org, social media.....very disappointed impressions with that one aspect.

The Rabea NAMM video is great proof to the contrary, but we need to hear those tones with the latest firmware along with a deep dive into that awesome cab interface being used in real time to its fullest potential. That's it.

Don't know how much longer they're keeping their powder dry, but I'd get some "damage control" clips out post haste. Nikko of @ML Sound Lab most certainly should be invested in making sure his IRs are better perceived, and he demos this stuff well all the time. Nolly doing a demo with his newly added IRs would be a guaranteed banger. Hell, have some of the bigger Neural endorsees lend you a rhythm DI and just reamp it through a ton of different high gain QC amp models in real time.

Personally, I'm still fully onboard, but the need is there.
ya I just checked that Namm Bea vid and even with the mono amp cab and the amp being a proto firmware we have heard nothing recently that rivals that roar of the JCM800 he got or the 5150
Kikos tone to me got better at the end , maybe he changed amps to the SLO as you said but from that part where he started that up picking muted into that almost 80s thing it sounded better , sadly he switch guitars and went back to cleans after about 10 seconds

the cool take away to me in that vid was the reverbs although a bit wet sounded great
the pitch shifter tracking is on point
and that last guy covered enough genres and edge of breakup stuff we can now move on to the heavies

also if Kiko could have played his new Imminent Threat would have be awesome go check that out
 

Chocol8

Member
Messages
379
Personally, I'm still fully onboard, but the need is there.
No, it’s really not. The reality is they have sold out the direct preorders and the dealers are building preorder lists. They don’t need to continue selling units they don’t have.

What they need to do right now is actually deliver as great a product as possible, as soon as they reasonably can. If they do that, they will have several thousand happy early adopters doing all the word of mouth and social media marketing they will need. All of the big YouTubers will get their hands on one and do the demos people are asking for.

If the product performs, it will sell like crazy. If it doesn’t, everyone will bitch that they should have done this or that and move on. The success of the product at this point is all tied to how it performs, and will have absolutely nothing to do with any videos NDSP releases between now and when the units ship.
 

mikah912

Member
Messages
6,799
No, it’s really not. The reality is they have sold out the direct preorders and the dealers are building preorder lists. They don’t need to continue selling units they don’t have.

What they need to do right now is actually deliver as great a product as possible, as soon as they reasonably can. If they do that, they will have several thousand happy early adopters doing all the word of mouth and social media marketing they will need. All of the big YouTubers will get their hands on one and do the demos people are asking for.

If the product performs, it will sell like crazy. If it doesn’t, everyone will bitch that they should have done this or that and move on. The success of the product at this point is all tied to how it performs, and will have absolutely nothing to do with any videos NDSP releases between now and when the units ship.
Why put out any demo videos then? Apparently they can ignore any popular requests before launch, count the preorders as a mortal lock before the money comes in and just focus on firmware development.
 

Elric

Silver Supporting Member
Messages
4,493
Ultimately, Neural tends to pay attention to popular consensus about their stuff, and I have to think they realize that the recent high gain rhythm modeling demos (Both the first Sweetwater tone and this last video) thus far are underwhelming. Here, Sevenstring.org, social media.....very disappointed impressions with that one aspect.

The Rabea NAMM video is great proof to the contrary, but we need to hear those tones with the latest firmware along with a deep dive into that awesome cab interface being used in real time to its fullest potential. That's it.

Don't know how much longer they're keeping their powder dry, but I'd get some "damage control" clips out post haste. Nikko of @ML Sound Lab most certainly should be invested in making sure his IRs are better perceived, and he demos this stuff well all the time. Nolly doing a demo with his newly added IRs would be a guaranteed banger. Hell, have some of the bigger Neural endorsees lend you a rhythm DI and just reamp it through a ton of different high gain QC amp models in real time.

Personally, I'm still fully onboard, but the need is there.
I dunno. I think your idea is a good one but it is hardly urgent. I don’t think that demo is going to cancel too many preorders. When this thing drops Ola, Fluff, Leon Todd, et al, will get ahold of this and wring it out immediately and the metal crowd is gonna be lined up cash in hand. The SSO crew knows Neural delivers crushing gain sounds with the plugs. Most of the metal crew already has faith in these guys, I think. I’m certainly not cancelling. It’s actually much more important that they showed the non-gain stuff is not gonna s*ck.
 

gtr37

Member
Messages
5,381
I think it is entirely possible (even probable) that they will come up with paid content that leverages the cloud architecture. However, I think it's absurd to think they will try keep people's presets hostage or something as some seem to be alluding to.
they are for sure likely to keep the plug in products separate what I think the cloud will do is allow users that buy new plugins to quickly get and download the QC compatible version
but yeah if they do something like archetype Rabea. It won’t be a free update for QC which is fine ,as long as they do continue w the free content as well
 

mikah912

Member
Messages
6,799
I dunno. I think your idea is a good one but it is hardly urgent. I don’t think that demo is going to cancel too many preorders. When this thing drops Ola, Fluff, Leon Todd, et al, will get ahold of this and wring it out immediately and the metal crowd is gonna be lined up cash in hand. The SSO crew knows Neural delivers crushing gain sounds with the plugs. Most of the metal crew already has faith in these guys, I think. I’m certainly not cancelling. It’s actually much more important that they showed the non-gain stuff is not gonna s*ck.
I love the non-gain stuff too. I love the plugins. I love the Rabea clip. I fully believe the high-gain models are very good and haven't been showcased properly.

This is about rep and mindshare. Once a consensus takes hold, it's tough to change it. That doesn't necessarily have anything to do with how successful a product is. But it does matter. You know the old classics:

"Helix is fizzy and squirrelly"
"Fractal UI and community sucks"
"BOSS modeling never changes"

...And so on. I'm simply saying Neural probably doesn't want an unflattering consensus of the Quad Cortex high gain capabilities setting in. That's it.
 

kavinsky

Member
Messages
20
This part of your post is so ridiculous that it is hard to take anything else you are saying seriously. IMHO.
did you even listen to the files I provided?
I don't know what amps youre playing and for what application, but thats just a simple studio truth.
whats ridiculous is relying on a tone stack (post eq essentially) to try and make a **** amp sound good. its not there for that
good amps are designed to be set around noon as a starting point. then you adjust the gain staging, and only after that the tonestack - given the instrument/part/context.
there are of course different scenarios (pushed old marshalls, pre eq mark seriec etc) and I possibly couldve worded it better, but when we're talking about high gain amps, what I said is a practical studio truth
if a highgain amp sounds **** with eq at noon - its not a good amp (or amp model)
 

mikah912

Member
Messages
6,799
did you even listen to the files I provided?
I don't know what amps youre playing and for what application, but thats just a simple studio truth.
whats ridiculous is relying on a tone stack (post eq essentially) to try and make a **** amp sound good. its not there for that
good amps are designed to be set around noon as a starting point. then you adjust the gain staging, and only after that the tonestack - given the instrument/part/context.
there are of course different scenarios (pushed old marshalls, pre eq mark seriec etc) and I possibly couldve worded it better, but when we're talking about high gain amps, what I said is a practical studio truth
if a highgain amp sounds **** with eq at noon - its not a good amp (or amp model)
What if you're playing a mid-focused pickup into a mid-heavy amp? Or a great amp into a crap cab? Or monitoring a good amp and cab with a crap mic badly placed?

The amp isn't the sole determinant of tone.
 




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